Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Again, nothing VDOT has ever done has solved any traffic problems in Nova, its just made it so we dont have to reanalyze what we are doing with land use for a couple extra years, then the whole system fails again.
I've got to be honest with you, I think the mixing bowl upgrades were tremendous. I grew up in the Falls Church area, and I vividly remember, anytime I needed to go south (495 to 95) for college or other reasons, the entrance to 95 was only one lane, and it backed up for an hour plus, sometimes as far back as the Braddock Road exits when there were accidents. That was a nightmare I'll never forget.
I've got to be honest with you, I think the mixing bowl upgrades were tremendous. I grew up in the Falls Church area, and I vividly remember, anytime I needed to go south (495 to 95) for college or other reasons, the entrance to 95 was only one lane, and it backed up for an hour plus, sometimes as far back as the Braddock Road exits when there were accidents. That was a nightmare I'll never forget.
The new 495 to 95 area is fantastic.
Tell that to the residents of Springfield. What cost over a half a billion dollars (nearly a billion in todays dollars) could have been done in a much simpler method instead of being a mega project for 10% of the cost, instead VDOT annexed nearly half of what used to be commercial springfield effectively cutting off the retail portion from the residential section of the town.
Tell that to the residents of Springfield. What cost over a half a billion dollars (nearly a billion in todays dollars) could have been done in a much simpler method instead of being a mega project for 10% of the cost, instead VDOT annexed nearly half of what used to be commercial springfield effectively cutting off the retail portion from the residential section of the town.
Well clearly, I didn't live in Springfield, though I have spent plenty of time there in the past few years and always thought it was a bit oddly layed out, in regards to the highways. I was speaking strictly from a traffic flow perspective.
Tell that to the residents of Springfield. What cost over a half a billion dollars (nearly a billion in todays dollars) could have been done in a much simpler method instead of being a mega project for 10% of the cost, instead VDOT annexed nearly half of what used to be commercial springfield effectively cutting off the retail portion from the residential section of the town.
Couldn't that be said the same for a majority of places? Walkability is not a preference in areas developed for the automobile like that area of Springfield, and if you know your history, a highway has always bisected that part of Springfield. When they reconstructed the 95/495 interchange and bought up surrounding land, they didn't buy land that was wanted/being used. The area around the interchange was going downhill and the interchange cleared up vacant buildings.
As for the traffic in the area, VDOT implemented numerous plans. How Amherst/Backlick roads are arranged as one-way was done in the 80s or 90s- way after the area was developed. The same goes for the neighborhood off Frontier Drive, which was developed around the 60s-70s. Old Keene Mill road is the true barrier to residential and retail areas; it is very evident on google maps. But for the "bloated" interchange for Old Keene Mill road and 95, it could have been done to avoid weaving to the 495 exits, especially since the two interchanges are so tightly placed. None the less, almost everyone I have asked about driving before and after the 95/495 redesign has said it has been very positive. My friend's parent's grew up here in the 70s before any major throughway was constructed and all they had were country roads. They said as bad as traffic got during construction, it was worth every cent.
Couldn't that be said the same for a majority of places? Walkability is not a preference in areas developed for the automobile like that area of Springfield, and if you know your history, a highway has always bisected that part of Springfield. When they reconstructed the 95/495 interchange and bought up surrounding land, they didn't buy land that was wanted/being used. The area around the interchange was going downhill and the interchange cleared up vacant buildings.
As for the traffic in the area, VDOT implemented numerous plans. How Amherst/Backlick roads are arranged as one-way was done in the 80s or 90s- way after the area was developed. The same goes for the neighborhood off Frontier Drive, which was developed around the 60s-70s. Old Keene Mill road is the true barrier to residential and retail areas; it is very evident on google maps. But for the "bloated" interchange for Old Keene Mill road and 95, it could have been done to avoid weaving to the 495 exits, especially since the two interchanges are so tightly placed. None the less, almost everyone I have asked about driving before and after the 95/495 redesign has said it has been very positive. My friend's parent's grew up here in the 70s before any major throughway was constructed and all they had were country roads. They said as bad as traffic got during construction, it was worth every cent.
Ive been here since the 80s, and traffic on 644 was never an issue until mixing bowl construction, and the widening of old keene mill occurred BECAUSE of mixing bowl to get it more like an arterial through so it wouldnt be the clogging point onto 495. It didnt used to be 8 lanes wide. I remember the shopping plazas along Commerce/backlick used to have PLENTY of people who walked and enjoyed the proximity to restaurants like Chesapeake Seafood House, Maleks, Curious George's and all of the mom and pop shops that ranged from hardware to clothing. There used to be 25,000 people within 1/2 mile as this part of springfield was more dense than the typical R-4 with plenty of townhouses etc.
Then the plan to make Springfield a commercial hub happened, lets pump hundreds of millions so that people can drive right into commerce drive and backlick. What happened instead? The place was cut in two, people moved because of the decades long construction disaster and living in the shadow of the largest overpass system in the country. Stores couldnt survive without these people which is why the mom and pops (of which my parents were one) started going bankrupt and the spaces were converted to big chains like Guitar Center (or Mars music) etc. Then eventually even the big boxes couldnt survive when no one was coming and now we have a crumbled retail and residential blight area... not to mention I havent seen any new office towers popping up either.
All it did was make it easier to NOT live in Springfield. It was the biggest gift ever given to the County of Stafford and it is painted out by Richmond as if it was a gift to Fairfax.
The biggest problem with these mega projects like 495 HOT isnt the widening of the highway itself, a corridor which is already deemed to be for vehicles and is an accepted barrier, but all of the interchanges, ramps, widenings to ever connecting road that occurs changing from street light intersections to full flow. Look at maps of Tysons 495 construction. 495 itself is barely anything compared to the amount of land being wasted for all the interchanges. 15% of tysons land area is used by interchanges for 495 THAT IS A TRAVESTY!
Ive been here since the 80s, and traffic on 644 was never an issue until mixing bowl construction, and the widening of old keene mill occurred BECAUSE of mixing bowl to get it more like an arterial through so it wouldnt be the clogging point onto 495. It didnt used to be 8 lanes wide. I remember the shopping plazas along Commerce/backlick used to have PLENTY of people who walked and enjoyed the proximity to restaurants like Chesapeake Seafood House, Maleks, Curious George's and all of the mom and pop shops that ranged from hardware to clothing. There used to be 25,000 people within 1/2 mile as this part of springfield was more dense than the typical R-4 with plenty of townhouses etc. (?)
Then the plan to make Springfield a commercial hub happened, lets pump hundreds of millions so that people can drive right into commerce drive and backlick. What happened instead? The place was cut in two, people moved because of the decades long construction disaster and living in the shadow of the largest overpass system in the country. Stores couldnt survive without these people which is why the mom and pops (of which my parents were one) started going bankrupt and the spaces were converted to big chains like Guitar Center (or Mars music) etc. Then eventually even the big boxes couldnt survive when no one was coming and now we have a crumbled retail and residential blight area... not to mention I havent seen any new office towers popping up either.
All it did was make it easier to NOT live in Springfield. It was the biggest gift ever given to the County of Stafford and it is painted out by Richmond as if it was a gift to Fairfax.
Springfield was never meant to be somewhere to live and shop in a walkable manner. It was designed as bedroom community straight from the get-go; the moment DC's growth ring hit the Springfield area it was designed for driving through with the occasional stop at the store. In the early 60s when Central Springfield was developed, it was a rural crossroads with limited opportunities, and they began developing on the north side of Old Keene Mill road, since it was zoned residential within the County's Comprehensive Plan. They built houses and some apartments (as infill) but not any townhomes. Even off Calamo Street, which was developed when Springfield was rural, there are single-family houses and no townhomes. This is how Springfield was developed, as an automobile-friendly bedroom community where you have to drive to do anything where almost everyone you knew lived in a detached house.
The stores are simply a part of the business cycle. I am sorry your parents owned a store and were affected by the 95/495 interchange redesign, but that is the truth. Consumers in Springfield wanted something different than mom-and-pop stores and began to shop other places. The redesign was simply the final push, the fire in the brush. Instead of having a heavily dilapidated area, such as the Route 1 corridor or Landmark, they built a new interchange and now we have the less-dilapidated area we know so well. Now that Generation X's preference for smaller living and walkability is becoming profitable, Springfield is becoming a hotbed for a potential urbanesque core.
I find that an analogy from nature works well here- in areas with constant wildfires, plants become dependent on the fire to re-seed. When the fire is suppressed, such as in areas around LA, the brush and undergrowth overtake the trees and become the dominant plants. Springfield is the area where fire was suppressed, with limited growth opportunities past auto-designed areas, which are the brush and undergrowth. The "trees" are pillars of the community- people, housing, and businesses. As auto-designed areas kept growing, so did the undergrowth in the "forest" of Springfield, and they took more nutrients, giving the trees less. When VDOT came in and decided to redesigned the interchange, so it was safer and easier, they lit the undergrowth on fire. The weakest went first, with the brush (relics from rural Springfield) going first. The undergrowth (the current suburban infrastructure) is currently on fire- a drive through downtown Springfield can show you that.
Although it may seem weird that changing a highway can make somewhere more urban, a quick look in history will show you that the interchange for 95/495 was horribly overcapacity, since it was built before the freeway revolts when the plan was that 95 were to go through DC. The redesign was long overdue and the Springfield Interchange used to be extremely dangerous. Now that they have redesigned the whole 95 corridor in Springfield, it set into motion a whole change within the corridor. While it may be easier to drive through it now, after the Springfield Town Center is completed, the infrastructure will be in place to handle the extra capacity.
Also-- you mention you lived here since the 80s and claim that traffic on 644 was never an issue until recently. Did you consider the effects of 7900/289, which was planned as a bypass of 644? Do you think they widened 644 in order to accommodate future traffic?
Last edited by williardium; 07-26-2012 at 01:13 PM..
Before VDOT built the eastern part of the FFC parkway if you were heading south on 123 to Woodbridge, it was mostly a two lane road. The traffic was bumper to bumper during rush hour on 123 all the way from Mclean to Woodbridge it was a nightmare, your only other alternative was to ride through the town of Clinton. The eastern part of FFC parkway was a God sent for many commuters from Woodbridge and beyond, its made a huge difference and it was long over due.
Thats fine, make sure you call the Washington Post, and the governor and let them know that it helped Stafford and PWC residents (of which I dont deny). The problem is, it is painted out as being an improvement for Fairfax, and took money away from other projects that would have helped fairfax and then the governor turned and included it in the "money sent to fairfax list" for political reasons.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
