Fill in the blank: I’ve seen more _________ yard signs in my NoVa neighborhood. (Cana: tax, military)

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Democrats generally tend to do better than Republicans in this regard (although "liberals" tend to do worse than "conservatives"). If you lay down party agendas of Ds and Rs without the labels, Rs tend to do very well in a survey, confirming tha the country is still fairly center-right. Attach the party labels and the numbers change. Rs often have a toxic image and there is a variety of reasons for that, much of it having to do with tone.

Laying off the strident gun, abortion, and illegal immigration talk would be a good start, particularly with the mainstream voters here in NoVA. Stick to economic and foreign policy issues.

[hilsmom]

OK, what survey data without party labels are you referring to? Share, please.

Is it like data that shows that without labels, people actually support quite a bit of what is contained in the Affordable Care Act?

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Laying off the strident gun, abortion, and illegal immigration talk would be a good start, particularly with the mainstream voters here in NoVA. Stick to economic and foreign policy issues.

Yes, but talks about individual freedom, protecting the innocent and supporting orderly, legal immigration seem to do well with center-right voters.

Originally Posted by hilsmom

OK, what survey data without party labels are you referring to? Share, please.

I can't find it on the internet, but there was a series of surveys done some years ago that tested the respective party platforms with and without the party labels.

Is it like data that shows that without labels, people actually support quite a bit of what is contained in the Affordable Care Act?

I hate Obamacare, but parts of it ARE popular. A majority, however, dislikes the individual mandate, without which there would be no Obamacare.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Yes, but talks about individual freedom, protecting the innocent and supporting orderly, legal immigration seem to do well with center-right voters.
I can't find it on the internet, but there was a series of surveys done some years ago that tested the respective party platforms with and without the party labels.
I hate Obamacare, but parts of it ARE popular. A majority, however, dislikes the individual mandate, without which there would be no Obamacare.

Speaking of labels, it really should be called Baucuscare or Maxcare since he's the one who put the whole thing together.

[kutra11]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

They're getting geared up for 2016.

That would be one obstinate act of desperation!

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

I like having two opposing parties, not two leftist parties..

I thought you took the POV that left and right as labels were relative to the current US political scene. So if there was one party that wanted to convert Obama care to single payer, and one that wanted to retain it as is, you'd have to call the former leftist and the latter rightist, correct?

once you introduce a less than completely relativist approach to such terminology, you would have to look at either US history (Obama is certainly to the right of FDR, LBJ, etc ) or to other western democracies (where almost every "conservative party" accepts national health insurance, or in the UK, national health care) as standards.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

I thought you took the POV that left and right as labels were relative to the current US political scene.

Not completely. My label relativism is not absolutist.

once you introduce a less than completely relativist approach to such terminology, you would have to look at either US history (Obama is certainly to the right of FDR, LBJ, etc )

but certainly to the left of Reagan, Bush 41 (debatable), Bush 43 and even Clinton...

or to other western democracies (where almost every "conservative party" accepts national health insurance, or in the UK, national health care) as standards.

Yay, Christian Democratic Party for everyone!

You like "conservative" parties that have government collect taxes for state churches? Mein Herr, I thought you different!

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Not completely. My label relativism is not absolutist.
but certainly to the left of Reagan, Bush 41 (debatable), Bush 43 and even Clinton...
Yay, Christian Democratic Party for everyone!

You like "conservative" parties that have government collect taxes for state churches? Mein Herr, I thought you different!

Obama left of clinton??? Not on health care certainly - if you recall, Hillarycare was effectively single payer. As for tax rates, their equivalency has been widely noted. They had similar views on Lord Keynes (President Clinton came into a very different economy of course). I would have thought Bill had spoken well enough for himself at the DNC, but apparently some were not listening.


As for what the christian dem parties of europe stand for in detail, I never said I agree with them on everything -thats not the point - the point is defining left vs right in a meaningful way - I think their attitude toward the mixed economy is more useful to us than their positions on historic anachronisms of their own societies.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Obama left of clinton??? Not on health care certainly - if you recall, Hillarycare was effectively single payer. As for tax rates, their equivalency has been widely noted. They had similar views on Lord Keynes (President Clinton came into a very different economy of course). I would have thought Bill had spoken well enough for himself at the DNC, but apparently some were not listening.

Yeah, but Bill Clinton saw the light after the mid-terms. Mr. "The era of big government is over."

Since you are of the leftist persuasion, surely you do know the throughness with which the Obama folks have gone about dismantling Clinton's centrist DLC. Indeed, where is DLC today?

As for what the christian dem parties of europe stand for in detail, I never said I agree with them on everything -thats not the point - the point is defining left vs right in a meaningful way - I think their attitude toward the mixed economy is more useful to us than their positions on historic anachronisms of their own societies.

Oh, I see, what you like in them is "meaningful" but what you don't like in them is "historic anachronism."

You don't realize the two are tied. The European right is far more statist than ours. It's been that way since the foundation of the Republic. We Americans are less inclined toward statist healthcare as well as statist church.

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

You don't realize the two are tied. The European right is far more statist than ours. It's been that way since the foundation of the Republic. We Americans are less inclined toward statist healthcare as well as statist church.

That's a joke. We Americans are plenty statist. We spend ours on things like the military/security-industrial complex that benefit "the right people" (the ones who tend to vote your way).