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FCNova - I think you phrased my primary question better than I did in my opening post, that is, I guess I am really asking how much schools matter in Fairfax County. My opening post might have been a little too focused on demographics, when I think this is the real concern underlying my question. Should I be fairly confident that no matter where I buy in Fairfax County, I am going to have pretty good schools or should I really try to avoid buying in certain areas? I imagine the answer is probably somewhere in between.
JEB77, I really appreciate your response - I think that really puts things in perspective for me. It really is a risk/benefit type of analysis when evaluating a home's particular location.
Thanks to the others for your responses so far as well. Definitely appreciate it.
I am a former Fairfax County teacher, and when we bought a home schools were definitely a big consideration. There were plenty of great bargains in bad school districts, and we passed on those. We didn't buy in the absolute richest demographic, but we also avoided schools where the percentage of low-income and esl students was very high (like, close to half or more). I taught in a low-income school and I absolutely would not send my child to that school. There are so many reasons, including, just to name a few, teacher attention in the classroom (goes mainly to struggling students), teacher quality (it is more stressful to work in a low-income school, so teacher turnover is higher), gang influence (even in elementary school it can filter down through older siblings), racial and economic tension (how would you like for your child to be the only white kid in a class where the word "white" is actually used as an insult or to be bullied for being a "rich kid" simply because you live in a house and not an apartment?) and so on. Basically, regardless of curriculum, a middle class child in a low-income school is likely to perform at a lower level academically and some may suffer socially as well. I'm not saying all - it depends on the kid - but many. I've posted before about the effect on academics on the classroom - to briefly sum up, imagine that your child starts first grade knowing how to add and subtract. However, most of the other kids in the class can barely count. The teacher is required to spend all year teaching addition if necessary, because that's in the curriculum and that's the standard. Your kid will not have the opportunity to learn anything new because the teacher cannot move beyond the state standard that she is responsible for teaching to the lowest students. This would not be the case in a class where all the kids are at your child's level from the beginning. Thus, I would not send my child to a low-income school, because I've seen all that stuff happen first hand.
I know I am getting a little off tangent with this, but I always see this bickering about the quality of schools in the county as a bit like picking nits. The schools in Fairfax County are good.
Just looking at the test score of a school and not considering anything else when considering your child's education is like just looking at the property value of a house and not bothering to go inside and look at the place before buying. It's a great tool for investing, but not so much for determining if it's the best for you (and your child).
I had no problem buying a house in the "horrid" Lee High High School Jurisdiction and I have a school aged child. There are benefits that can't be measured in "scores" of other people's kids. For example, living in Lee means my commute time is super short and I therefore have more time for my daughter (and more time to put into her education/making sure homework is done/etc). I can volunteer at the school and get involved. Plus, my house was more affordable (which means more disposable income for things like extra circular actives, buying books, taking trips, etc). So I see the quality of education as mainly resting on the parents and the individual student and other intangible things. Yes, I consider test scores, but they are just part of a big picture of priorities.
That in mind, people who see things mainly in numbers aren't as quick to buy in Lee because overall their numbers are lower than West Springfield. They are looking at it as a property investment and using that useful tool. So you have to keep that in mind. But also keep in mind that districts change (like another poster said) so it's possible you could pay a premium to be in a certain district and find yourself in another when you go to sell. So buying with that in mind can be a bit of a risk.
Good luck with the house shopping! I really think given both areas you are looking into, you will do just fine.
Both are based on a parent's desire to have their children associate with only certain other children and not others. Though one is considered acceptable and the other not, I don't see a major difference in terms of motivation.
ALL responsible parents care about whom their children associate with. Many parents are simply not in the economic position to act on that desire. For example, precious few parents would willingly send their child to a school filled with bullies, sociopaths, or delinquents, but some low-income parents have no choice. And it's hard to imagine parents who would reject a school filled with high-achieving, kind and caring kids whose racial background doesn't happen to match their own, but you might move in different circles.
car54 - thanks for your thougts regarding redistricting. That is certainly something that has crossed my mind. The particular area I am looking at in Springfield (Saratoga) is probably the furthest away from Lee HS one could get and still be districted for that HS, so I am sure this is a distinct possibility over the medium to long term horizon. Another factor into the equation I suppose.
Thanks to everyone else for their continued comments. Apologies if my opening post was a little too focused on race. I know it can be a little tricky area when talking about demographics of different schools because of the differences between correlation and causation when it comes to test scores and student performance. For some, its only the test scores they care about. For others, they may not feel comfortable with their kid being in the minority at school whether that is because of race, socieconomic status, and/or simply motivation level. And, of course, it can also be a combination of those factors.
I think my real main concern is how much emphasis to place on the schools for which a particular house is zoned in Fairfax County given my current life situation, and I think the posts on here have provided some very valuable insight so thanks very much.
While I wouldn't avoid a house in the Saratoga area because it's zoned for Lee, I definitely would not buy there with any expectation of getting redistricted out of Lee. Lee is one of the least crowded high schools in the county and, if anything, is more likely to have students redistricted into the school at some point than have students currently zoned for Lee redistricted to other schools.
And, if the time ever came to redistrict students out of Lee, there would be pressure on FCPS to keep Saratoga in the Lee district to avoid a negative impact on Lee's test scores, and the areas that would more likely be redistricted would be areas that are already "split feeders" to both Lee and West Springfield (that is, students zoned for Rolling Valley and West Springfield ES who currently are also assigned to Lee, even though most of their classmates go to West Springfield HS).
While I wouldn't avoid a house in the Saratoga area because it's zoned for Lee, I definitely would not buy there with any expectation of getting redistricted out of Lee. Lee is one of the least crowded high schools in the county and, if anything, is more likely to have students redistricted into the school at some point than have students currently zoned for Lee redistricted to other schools.
And, if the time ever came to redistrict students out of Lee, there would be pressure on FCPS to keep Saratoga in the Lee district to avoid a negative impact on Lee's test scores, and the areas that would more likely be redistricted would be areas that are already "split feeders" to both Lee and West Springfield (that is, students zoned for Rolling Valley and West Springfield ES who currently are also assigned to Lee, even though most of their classmates go to West Springfield HS).
Thanks, JEB77. That makes a lot of sense. I've also been looking at homes and neighborhoods in the Rolling Valley/West Springfield ES areas, so I suppose that is something to keep in mind for the homes in those areas. Really appreciate your responses - you seem to quite informed about the area, and I appreciate your thoughts.
ALL responsible parents care about whom their children associate with. Many parents are simply not in the economic position to act on that desire. For example, precious few parents would willingly send their child to a school filled with bullies, sociopaths, or delinquents, but some low-income parents have no choice. And it's hard to imagine parents who would reject a school filled with high-achieving, kind and caring kids whose racial background doesn't happen to match their own, but you might move in different circles.
I agree with this. And for what it's worth, the kids (both young and teens) in my neighborhood seem to be great kids. We don't have delinquents and such and there even seems to be a lack of typical teen problems (like driving around at night playing loud music). We don't have problems with teens roaming around at night unless you count the group that goes running together after school (I see them a lot). The "crime report" in our neighborhood newsletter is usually blank (and when it isn't, it's something like remind people of the speed limits). They are good kids as far as I can tell.
Thanks, JEB77. That makes a lot of sense. I've also been looking at homes and neighborhoods in the Rolling Valley/West Springfield ES areas, so I suppose that is something to keep in mind for the homes in those areas. Really appreciate your responses - you seem to quite informed about the area, and I appreciate your thoughts.
There is a large section of the Rolling Valley neighborhood which feeds into Hunt Valley ES and Irving MS. You could watch that area for homes.
We moved into our house in Vienna before having children. We partially picked it because of the schools we fed into. We had a child 1 year later and 2 more after that. Two of them attended the elementary school (one for 5 years). Time goes quickly! We have since moved away, but have held onto our home. We feel very fortunate because although our house is an old, 1950's ranch house, we are confident that it will sell quickly because it's in the Madison High School pyramid.
A 1950s rambler near Tysons should sell quickly because it's relatively affordable housing in a generally expensive area near a major jobs center. Similar houses in areas zoned for Marshall or Falls Church HS (Dunn Loring Woods, Stonewall Manor, Pimmit Hills, Broyhill Park) also regularly go under contract in less than two weeks. It seems to me that you might have had to pay more for the house, and you might get more back now, because it's zoned for Madison.
In Springfield, the number of houses in that price range relative to the demand might be higher, so maybe schools are more of a differentiating factor for buyers, insofar as Lee and West Springfield HS are concerned. But 1950s ramblers in the Tysons area are about as liquid as houses get in NoVa, regardless of school assignment, as far as I can tell.
Anyway, why would you sell? I thought the NC thing was a short-time gig and that you were planning to be LandlordGC in the interim!
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JEB77
A 1950s rambler near Tysons should sell quickly because it's relatively affordable housing in a generally expensive area near a major jobs center. Similar houses in areas zoned for Marshall or Falls Church HS (Dunn Loring Woods, Stonewall Manor, Pimmit Hills, Broyhill Park) also regularly go under contract in less than two weeks. It seems to me that you might have had to pay more for the house, and you might get more back now, because it's zoned for Madison.
In Springfield, the number of houses in that price range relative to the demand might be higher, so maybe schools are more of a differentiating factor for buyers, insofar as Lee and West Springfield HS are concerned. But 1950s ramblers in the Tysons area are about as liquid as houses get in NoVa, regardless of school assignment, as far as I can tell.
Anyway, why would you sell? I thought the NC thing was a short-time gig and that you were planning to be LandlordGC in the interim!
Yes, my "near Tysons" location certainly contributes to my housing value, but my point was that any house - even a crummy 1950's ranch one - will still be desireable if it feeds into a good school district. And that two identical houses in the same general vicinity but one feeding into a school with good test scores will generally keep its value and sell faster than one that feeds into a lower-perceived school. Yes, you pay a premium when you buy, but you get it back when you sell.
As far as selling our Vienna house, I would move back yesterday if I could. But for now, unless I move back without my husband, we are stuck here . Our house is rented out to tenants who are in Tyson's on an 18-month assignment. After that, we can rent it out again, but only for 1 year, otherwise we will take a hit on capital gains on the house (we have to have lived in the house for 2 of the past 5 years to avoid capital gains). So at the very latest, we will be selling it in about 1 1/2 years unless we move back. What is LandlordGC?
It has absolutely nothing to do with who my kids associate with and everything to do with getting my kids into a school that has good results.
For you that may be true but a lot of parents use test scores as proxies for more than just the quality of the teachers, facilities, and curriculum of the school, especially in light of the fact that those are pretty much standard throughout the county.
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- will still be desireable if it feeds into a good school district. And that two identical houses in the same general vicinity but one feeding into a school with good test scores will generally keep its value and sell faster than one that feeds into a lower-perceived school. Yes, you pay a premium when you buy, but you get it back when you sell.
. Our house is rented out to tenants who are in Tyson's on an 18-month assignment. After that, we can rent it out again, but only for 1 year, otherwise we will take a hit on capital gains on the house (we have to have lived in the house for 2 of the past 5 years to avoid capital gains). So at the very latest, we will be selling it in about 1 1/2 years unless we move back. What is LandlordGC?
