things that upset you about nova (Reston, Centreville: prices, rail, housing)

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

People who complain and don't realize how nice it is here.

Originally Posted by cdmurphy

Expanding on CAVA1990's post... People who move here from elsewhere and complain incessantly

Originally Posted by hokiematt

I guess it's probably the fact that people keep complaining about it and not realizing how nice it is!

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

The whiners and self indulgent retrospectives from people who have lived here for two years and came here for a job without an open mind as to themselves being the reason this area "is upsetting"

^ A few excellent examples to help illustrate my point. "If there's something here you don't like, then there must be something wrong with you".

[FC Merrifield]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Wow. I only read through page 8 and had to stop before I broke out in laughter.

I lived in Fairfax Couty (the "ahead of the curve" planned community of Reston, to be precise) for a year-and-a-half and now live in Pittsburgh.

My grievances?

I can't speak for others, but I can definitely admit that there are negative aspects to this area, just like anywhere else. But I at least give you credit for leaving this area since you didn't like it and moving somewhere that makes you happy. Seems reasonable and rational, doesn't it?

But I noticed that you also complained a lot about traffic and the cost of housing in this area. And it's true, I also would love it if it was cheaper to live here and there was less traffic. Who wouldn't? But that's the price that comes with living in an area where people actually want to live. I could find cheap housing and little traffic in thousands of places, but I choose to live here instead because I would hate to live in those other places. And, surprisingly enough, millions of others agree with me. Hence, we have high cost of living and lots of traffic. It's just basic math, and supply and demand. There's a reason why houses are cheaper in Pitt - there's less demand for those houses so the price went down; it's not worth as much.

Also, what you consider "charm" could mean "run down" to others. Personally, I think Pitt is an ugly city with all the charm of a dilapidated, rusty shed. But charm is subjective and one man's trash is another man's treasure. So I would hate it if I had to live in a place like Pitt, just like you hated it here.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Wow. I only read through page 8 and had to stop before I broke out in laughter.

I lived in Fairfax Couty (the "ahead of the curve" planned community of Reston, to be precise) for a year-and-a-half and now live in Pittsburgh.

My grievances?

1.) The passive-aggressive people ... who largely think (or imply) "there must be something wrong with you" if you dare offer a critique or pass judgment against the quality-of-life in Northern Virginia. Contrary to popular belief everything isn't "sunshine and puppies" in NoVA if you're not affluent. In Pittsburgh we're criticized from time to time for various reasons, and instead of just brushing off the poster (or person) as being irrational, insane, a whiner, etc. we intelligently debate that person or (get this!) are WILLING TO ADMIT WE HAVE FAULTS! I still harbor a grudge against a few members on this sub-forum who, instead of debating my grievances, chose to instead personally attack me at every juncture, unchecked.

Dunno - the "popular belief" - repeatedly shared with prospective newcomers on this sub-forum is that this is an expensive area that may not be a good fit for people with limited savings or earnings potential. I think if this were stressed any more than it already is, it would sound exclusionary. FWIW, I also follow the Pittsburgh forum and see people get into exactly the same sorts of heated discussions that occur on this sub-forum occasionally. There are plenty of the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" statements from those who take offense when someone doesn't like Pittsburgh.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

2.) The high cost of housing. Saying NoVA's housing prices are "comparable to what you'd pay in San Francisco, NYC, L.A., etc." is asinine because NoVA is a suburb---not a world-class city---and even though it's NEAR a world-class city access into it is sub-par with Metrorail trying desperately to play "catch up" far too late in laying down new rail lines and adding new stations. I strongly resented paying a similar rent for a 1-BR apartment in the outer suburbs of Fairfax County, where it would often take an egregiously long time to access city amenities, as I'd pay for a studio in the heart of a city with soul, character, and charm. I paid over $1,300/month for a 1-BR in Reston, which is quite a haul from DC and offers nothing for young professionals who don't think "posing" at Reston Town Center for happy hour is a true urban experience. I now pay $700/month to live in a historic rowhome within walking distance to Downtown Pittsburgh and still don't know what that $600/month price premium to live in Reston really afforded me in terms of a "bang for your buck" factor. I could NEVER afford to buy my own home in Northern Virginia whereas I'm already house-hunting in Pittsburgh. My mortgage payment will be $350/month (including taxes and insurance).

I think you missed the point, as people were most likely intending such statements to refer to Metro areas (i.e., housing in NoVa vs. housing in Burlingame outside SF, vs. Scarsdale or Larchmont outside NYC, etc.). While we don't have the large subway system and commuter lines that exist in the NYC region, our expanding Metro system is certainly as extensive as what you'll find in most other large metropolitan areas in the United States. There are a lot of communities not far from Pittsburgh where public transportation is not really an option if you're trying to get downtown or to Oakland.

Whether you find Pittsburgh to have a "soul, character, and charm" lacking in DC or NoVa is a matter of personal taste. I agree NoVa needs to do more to appeal to young workers, but there are a lot of people - some originally from the Pittsburgh area - who like it here, and have not been forced to live or work here.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

3.) Speaking of "soul, character, and charm" where was that in Northern Virginia, outside a few small pockets like Old Town Alexandria, Winchester, and Fredericksburg? We're living in a neighborhood that was rooted in the 1800s and features original brick sidewalks, historic sets of city steps to traverse our very steep topography, and rowhomes that look much as they did 120 years ago. Our Downtown is a breathtaking mish-mash of 1800s buildings set against a backdrop of modern skyscrapers (with more on the way). Reston's architecture made it feel like I was living in a 1970 bubble. Leesburg's "charm" was destroyed by overpopulation. Ashburn featured more beige vinyl siding than I have ever seen in my life. Tysons Corner was an immensely depressing place to work from an aesthetic standpoint. I always laughed when I saw families from Loudoun County coming to Reston Town Center to pretend they were in the "real" city instead of some creepy sterile open-air office park/plaza.

If you grew up in or near a small town in the Mid-Atlantic with older architecture, that tends to get baked into your DNA, and you then end up tending to look for something similar elsewhere. If you grew up somewhere else, it's simply not as important to be around old buildings and you do not necessarily equate them with "charm" or "character." There are some exceptions to this, of course, but I think this tends to hold true as a generalization.

It largely goes without saying that it's condescending of you to assume that Loudoun families heading out to Reston Town Center or Dulles Town Center were "pretending" to be in anything other than a modern town center with their families. That particular type of development is common in a lot of metropolitan areas now and often very successful. I expect these folks could find their way to DC or, for that matter, the Strip District in Pittsburgh if they wanted to have a different experience.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

4.) The emphasis placed upon higher education, career promotions, professional accreditations, status, money, etc. There was this overwhelming vibe of "have to be more successful than my parents' generation", "have to be more successful than my neighbor", "have to be more successful than my peers", etc. I'm not saying it's necessarily a terrible thing to continuously strive to better oneself. With that being said I felt like I was in a constant professional rat-race/boiler room. Just about all of my peers talked about work, getting their terminal degrees, work, sitting for their CPA, CFE, CIA, or Bar exams, work, etc. outside of WORK. It was if people in NoVA largely lived to work instead of worked to live. How depressing.

That does sound depressing, but so too would be someone who only wants to talk about the Steelers or his or her very complicated personal life. It's not always easy making new friends among co-workers in one's post-college years. It takes more patience and time, and some work environments are inherently competitive.

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

5.) Traffic. What angers me the most about NoVA's traffic is that officials permitted all of these places like Ashburn, Leesburg, Reston, Sterling, Chantilly, Centreville, Fairfax, etc. to mushroom in growth BEFORE making sure the infrastructure was available to service the needs of that new population. I always felt like NoVA was living in a "build first, plan later" mindset, and as an urban planning aficionado I couldn't help but shake my head in disgust. There's no reason why it should have taken me 45 minutes to commute from Reston to Tysons Corner, which was just six or seven miles away. Pittsburgh's traffic is a BREEZE in comparison, and before people start talking about population disparities bear in mind NoVA and Pittsburgh both have roughly 2.5 million inhabitants, if I'm not mistaken. I can't believe someone in this thread said "at least we're not Bahrain!" in regards to driving/traffic. That's like Cleveland saying "at least we're not Detroit!"

No doubt that the goal for a very long time was simply to attract more jobs and residents, and deal with the transit infrastructure later. There has been a lot more focus locally and regionally in recent years on where we need to go from here to renovate some areas and make them more attractive for younger residents in particular. [The main thing that I took from your many, many posts years ago was that suburban employers and governments needed to be aware that the 1980s model of isolated townhouse developments close to office parks, in the midst of a congested region, was something that many younger residents/workers find uninspiring and, perhaps, alienating.] Of course, it is easier to try and build from a position of relative strength than attempt to find money for infrastructure projects when there is a largely depleted tax base. When you spend people's money on facilities or infrastructure that aren't used for a long time, you get accused of boondoggles, "White Elephants," and "bridges to nowhere."

Peace out. I hear it's freezing in Pittsburgh today!

[ngadude]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Dunno - I have reason to follow the Pittsburgh forum and I see people get into exactly the same sorts of heated discussions.


It largely goes without saying that it's condescending of you to assume that Loudoun families heading out to Reston Town Center or Dulles Town Center were "pretending" to be in anything other than a modern town center with their families. That particular type of development is common in a lot of metropolitan areas now and often very successful. I expect these folks could find their way to DC or, for that matter, the Strip District in Pittsburgh if they wanted to have a different experience.

I'm guessing the people visiting Reston Town Center had hats or t-shirts on identifying them from Loudoun County and saying things like "look, we are in the big city"! They must have wondered why they were being laughed at...

We all know what happens to people who assume....

[Middlin]

...

SCR - I get you don't like this area, but please, I think your comparisons between the two cities are laughable

[pcity]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

^ A few excellent examples to help illustrate my point. "If there's something here you don't like, then there must be something wrong with you".

People take a lot of pride in the area where they live.

Not sure why you are surprised to see people dismissive of complainers. EVERY area has its boosters and EVERY forum here has lots of "If you don't like it, move" responses. This is not unique to NoVA. You only experienced this in NoVA because you were one of the complainers. You don't experience it in Pittsburgh because (presumably) you like the area and aren't constantly complaining about it.

[FindingZen]

Instead of "ranting" about each other, let us return to "ranting" about our region.

[metclubin]

Originally Posted by Tone509

Wow, where's that bar?

I know one in Ashburn where you will hear Eagles anthem on every touchdown every Sunday. I go there from Fairfax almost every Sunday if they don't show Eagles game on TV here.
All American Steakhouse

Another one I heard is Rhino Bar in Georgetown. Never been there yet. It seems its all about Philly sports.

[metclubin]

Originally Posted by spencgr

not sure where you hang out.....I'm always around a plethora of Philly fans.

and, really, as an Eagles fan, you let the Cowboy and Redskin fans crap on you?? Maybe you shouldn't be allowed near the real fans.

I was only once crapped by a Redskins fan one row below mine screaming at my face on almost all plays at FedEx field last year when I went for Eagles @ Redskins game. I told him "that's all you got". "try wearing your RG3 jersey anywhere in South Philly and see what you get, forget about actually going to the game." He did not bother me after that and Skins were already 20 pts up at that point.

[South Jersey Styx]

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

Also, what you consider "charm" could mean "run down" to others.

I thought charm meant historic or fixer-upper?
Maybe I am thinking of real estate terms.

Originally Posted by FC Merrifield

Personally, I think Pitt is an ugly city with all the charm of a dilapidated, rusty shed. But charm is subjective and one man's trash is another man's treasure. So I would hate it if I had to live in a place like Pitt, just like you hated it here.

Wow, what a mean statement. I only visited Pittsburgh once on a teaching fellowship and I didn't find it to be ugly or dilapidated at all. In fact, I saw some beautiful neighborhoods. I did think it was a shame that much of the downtown area was boarded up due to a declining economy. But I did notice some wonderful historic buildings.

Originally Posted by JEB77

If you grew up in or near a small town in the Mid-Atlantic with older architecture, that tends to get baked into your DNA, and you then end up tending to look for something similar elsewhere. If you grew up somewhere else, it's simply not as important to be around old buildings and you do not necessarily equate them with "charm" or "character."

Well, not really. As a military brat, whenever we moved, we neither lived in the most prestigious houses nor the worse. Nor did I live anywhere with older architecture which could have been "baked into DNA." My first house I owned in Loudoun County was brand new. Fine, but after some time, I did not prefer. The second one, I knew would be old/historic and ended up buying in Winchester. Yes, I can say it has character, charm, etc. and no, it is not dilapidated, ugly, etc.

And for many, it is indeed "important to be around old buildings" regardless of upbringing. In fact, many people believe in the historic preservation of older buildings, including me.

I would suggest, however, that debating on this topic is better off in the Architecture Forum. There are lots of folks who are specialists/experts on this topic.