Can Fairfax Afford to be an Immigrant Sanctuary County? (schools, camps)

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by PetaltoMetal

Here is what we are facing. In Montgomery County more than half of first graders are Hispanic. No problem with their race, but they have extremely low SAT scores.

This made me laugh. They're certainly starting early by making first graders take the SAT test. Truly a progressive school system.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by tongyang

I'm talking about school age kids too. I immigrated to the US 20+ years ago (legally, mind you), and I studied English in my home country since I was in elementary school every year. When I arrived, I still had to enroll in ESL classes for 2 years before I caught up, because studying English in a foreign setting is not the same as speaking/listening/reading/writing in day to day life. I can't imagine the learning curve if you have never studied English in your life and try to learn English through the ESOL classes.

Think about when you studied foreign language in high school, French/Spanish/German or whatever. Do you think after taking those classes you'll be comfortable living in Spain or Germany without having to enroll in their equivalent of ESOL classes?
paid point is, knowing basic English is not enough to get out of ESOL classes, and being enrolled in ESOL classes doesn't mean you're not trying to learn English and therefore you can't possibly be legal.

Then why is there such a need for these classes? I agree with you English is hard to learn but if the expectation is that these kids will pick up these languages in a few years then it appears that the majority of those who use these services are new students who moved to the county. The correlation here though is that there is an increasing number of low income students as well as ESL. If they are legal citizens then again as I explained with my first post, the resource should be there by virtue of Census data. Growing class sizes, more lower income and ESL students all point to one thing. If our country operated in the way that it is supposed to, then the increase number of residents would be matched with increased resources. Think about it, if everyone is accounted for, everyone paid their taxes, then why are there not new schools going up to compliment the growth?

[PetaltoMetal]

Originally Posted by slim04

This isn't true. The largest numbers of legal immigration into the United States are not affluent persons. They are family members of current U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents, who are often poor and seeking a better life and education opportunities in the U.S. The numbers of so-called H1B visas for professionals are quite small and are dwarfed by other visas.

Also, as I stated earlier, a very large number of ESOL, latino, asian, and african immigrants in the DC area are legal or have a quasi-legal status in the U.S. (i.e. temporary protected service or asylum applicants). Thus, you cannot lump immigrants or ESOL as an illegal immigration problem. Even if you banned illegal immigrants from public schools, the bulk of those students would still be there because they have legal or temporary legal status. Also, don't forget, because your parents are illegal immigrants, it doesn't mean the children are illegal immigrants as well. Those born in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. That doesn't prevent the parents from being deported and many children will leave not separate from their parents, but they don't have to leave. They have the same rights as you and me.

I'm not going to dispute this. It's just that in Fairfax County there are a very large number of affluent immigrants in the best of neighborhoods. I'm not going to look up the percentages.

Your point is valid. There could also be an amnesty coming. This is all the more reason why you want to keep the housing values up and to not surrender and start building awful, tiny single room apartments. Frankly, I don't know what you do at the local level in the long term.

The best I can see is that counties could try to stem the tide of poverty and degradation long enough for people to work through their life-cycles. Get their children through the good schools, retire and move away, etc. As long as the poor keep pouring across the border and into the county at this rate, the area and the country just don't have a good future.

[michgc]

Originally Posted by tongyang

ESOL (this acronym confuses me, as we used to say ESL when I was in high school 20 years ago), even if he/she studied English prior to coming to the States. Using English in day-to-day life as your

ESL = English as a Second Language

ESOL = English for Speakers of Other Languages

As I understand it, ESOL became the preferred acronym because for many English is a third, fourth, or fifth language, not necessarily a second language. Although many school districts still use ESL.

ELL is also used in some school districts which stands for English Language Learner

[robbobobbo]

Originally Posted by pgtvatitans

Secondly, in order to become a LEGAL US citizen, you must be able to read, write and speak basic English, therefore it is likely that these are not legal citizens. It's one thing if you just got here but if you have been here for years and can't speak English, how could you possibly be legal?

You've completely omitted all the legal residents who are not citizens ("green card" holders). There is no language proficiency requirement for getting a green card.

A foreign woman could marry a citizen and gain permanent residency in the US for herself and her children (from that marriage or a previous one). Those children, and the wife, might not be proficient in English. That's just one scenario.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by dkf747

Yes, I was being tongue-in-cheek with that comment. This whole topic has everything to do with race (immigrants). If enough people start thinking like the OP, white-flight will happen. Maybe it's already happening. I moved to Ashburn, and almost everywhere looks new. How many of these people fled Fairfax County because of the growing population of immigrants?

I would venture to say that most people have no problem with immigration. Immigrants, by definition, are legal. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Is that not correct? People do have issues with those who are in the county illegally (aliens). That's where the problem lies.

[dkf747]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

I would venture to say that most people have no problem with immigration. Immigrants, by definition, are legal. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Is that not correct? People do have issues with those who are in the county illegally (aliens). That's where the problem lies.

I'm sure that most people are reasonable. I was referring to the OP's way of thinking, which I do not see as reasonable.

[PetaltoMetal]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

I would venture to say that most people have no problem with immigration. Immigrants, by definition, are legal. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Is that not correct? People do have issues with those who are in the county illegally (aliens). That's where the problem lies.

Where is there a definition that says immigrants are, by definition, legal? Thousands of people wait in line to immigrate here every year legally. Here's an ounce of wisdom. What can value can an illegal alien produce beyond what he or she takes? That is how the wealth of nations is built.

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by PetaltoMetal

Where is there a definition that says immigrants are, by definition, legal? Thousands of people wait in line to immigrate here every year legally. Here's an ounce of wisdom. What can value can an illegal alien produce beyond what he or she takes? That is how the wealth of nations is built.

I've always thought of "immigrants" to be people who have arrived legally, through an official process. To me the term "illegal immigrant" is an oxymoron. "Undocumented ____________" "alien" would refer to someone in a country illegally. Those who are waiting to "emigrate" to the US would be "immigrants" once they make it through the process.

One example of where there is a definition:

Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.

So, my point remains. Most people don't have an issue with immigrants because immigrants have earned the right to legally reside in the US. People (myself included), do have issues with those who have arrived illegally.

[PetaltoMetal]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

I've always thought of "immigrants" to be people who have arrived legally, through an official process. To me the term "illegal immigrant" is an oxymoron. "Undocumented ____________" "alien" would refer to someone in a country illegally. Those who are waiting to "emigrate" to the US would be "immigrants" once they make it through the process.

One example of where there is a definition:

Immigration Terms and Definitions Involving Aliens

Immigrant
An alien who has been granted the right by the USCIS to reside permanently in the United States and to work without restrictions in the United States. Also known as a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR). All immigrants are eventually issued a "green card" (USCIS Form I-551), which is the evidence of the alien’s LPR status. LPR’s who are awaiting the issuance of their green cards may bear an I-551 stamp in their foreign passports.

Illegal Alien
Also known as an "Undocumented Alien," is an alien who has entered the United States illegally and is deportable if apprehended, or an alien who entered the United States legally but who has fallen "out of status" and is deportable.

So, my point remains. Most people don't have an issue with immigrants because immigrants have earned the right to legally reside in the US. People (myself included), do have issues with those who have arrived illegally.

Here is what the person said. He/she says there is no such thing as "illegal" immigrant. Do federal laws mean anything? What laws do and don't define what is legal?

Originally Posted by tgbwc
I would venture to say that most people have no problem with immigration. Immigrants, by definition, are legal. There is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Is that not correct? People do have issues with those who are in the county illegally (aliens). That's where the problem lies.