Loudoun County Sprawl Killing Budget (school, buses, transportation)

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

That would involve having non-suburban road design standards. For many, crossing roads like Waxpool are not exactly the safest thing for 8 year olds to do. Would you propose having traffic lights untimed for vehicles and instead having longer safer all reds for children crossing? Its all well and good to propose more children walk until it confronts the reality of traffic congestion ay?

Please tell me who would need to cross Waxpool and where? To say that it is wrong for children to cross any busy street is crazy.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by spencgr

Please tell me who would need to cross Waxpool and where? To say that it is wrong for children to cross any busy street is crazy.

I'm not saying it is wrong for children to cross busy streets, please don't put words in my mouth. I am saying it is wrong how VDOT designs roads, completely ignoring pedestrians, so if you had your child cross the street at a place like waxpool (or the countless other road intersections in Loudoun county not designed for pedestrians in mind) then there is a more likely chance said child would be struck than in jurisdictions that do not have VDOT control of roads which properly design for all road users.

I am all for children crossing streets, which is why I support the safe routes to school initiative in Fairfax, however that has taken nearly a decade to grow and several years to stop obstruction from DOTs who have the sole goal of reducing congestion, and to hell with the pedestrians. The other issue at hand is frequency of conflict between pedestrian and vehicle. Because very few people are pedestrians at any given time in exurbs and suburbs, it creates a much larger surprise factor to drivers, making the most typical conflict actions of left turns and right turns even more dangerous because the driver won't be expecting to see a person. So it is a self perpetuating issue.

BTW, I'm no loudounite but I'm pretty sure there would be plenty of people who are in a school district where the school is across a major street in loudoun considering there are so many semi-free flow designed 4+ lane roads in the county. For example

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...80aba7422ece4c

or Ashburn Road

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...80aba7422ece4c

or Faulkner Pkwy

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...80aba7422ece4c

Or Claiborne Pkwy

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lo...80aba7422ece4c

So yes, you can say more kids should walk, but when you've designed a transportation system that makes it more lethal for children (and adults) to walk, then you end up with one mode only. Use a car.

Pedestrian killed in Ashburn crash

Pedestrian killed by suspected drunken driver in Sterling - INSIDENOVA.COM: Loudoun

Authorities say man struck, killed by car while he fled hit-and-run crash in Loudoun County - The Washington Post

Dangerous by Design – with 843 pedestrian fatalities in 10 years, still work to do for safe streets in DC region | Coalition for Smarter Growth

In 2013, an elementary school principal in Loudoun County was tragically killed trying to cross a four-lane, 35 mph road and in 2012, drivers struck nine children and adults walking to school in Montgomery County. “As more people make the sustainable and healthy choice to leave their cars at home, we are unfortunately seeing more tragic crashes. Decades of car-oriented design has made it hazardous in many of our communities simply to walk to school, work, or shopping,” - See more at: Dangerous by Design – with 843 pedestrian fatalities in 10 years, still work to do for safe streets in DC region | Coalition for Smarter Growth

Now police and drivers and everyone are trying their best to resolve the situation

'Street Smart' Regional Campaign Urges Increased Attention on Roadways | Ashburn, VA Patch

But what the lay person doesn't understand is it isnt usually the drivers fault (although distracted driving and DUIs happen), it isnt usually the pedestrians fault (its never right to kill a pedestrian, end of story) but it is the systems fault. Jurisdictions have for years designed their local roads as if they are designing highways, and its lead to no decrease in vehicle deaths, while drastically increasing pedestrians deaths to the point where near no one is a pedestrian any more.

For god sakes, most people don't even know what the rules are for pedestrians, for instance the fact that a pedestrian always has right of way at any 4 way intersection no matter what. Did you know that, because most drivers don't I see them zooming by everyday when I or my wife or another pedestrian have right of way and they are legally required to stop. Or that a sign with a pedestrian walking on a yellow backdrop and an arrow doesn't mean "watch out for and don't hit pedestrians as you drive by" it means if there is a person at the curb, you stop and let them pass. Do you have any idea how many times I have seen a car fly by in this situation with near tragic results? You can blame the driver, but if society has no idea what the laws are for pedestrians it is more an indication of how perverse our system has become.

But I hope you do pursue safe routes to school. Be prepared to be met by angry commuters who want to fight with you for slowing them down for 30 seconds.

[LetsRock]

Originally Posted by spencgr

Please tell me who would need to cross Waxpool and where? To say that it is wrong for children to cross any busy street is crazy.

I live in Annanadale. We have CROSSING GUARDS to get kids across Braddock Road and Little River Turnpike.

[dkf747]

My kids ride a bus, but when there are after school activities, and I can't get there to pick them up, they walk home across Faulkner and Waxpool(not the busiest part of it), not to mention other busy roads. I don't like it because one portion has no sidewalks, and two places have no lights. One other place has just a 4 way stop signs. Faulkner isn't very busy, but Waxpool is sort of busy at that point. Shellhorn is very busy. I worry, but they've been okay so far. I would like to see lights at one of those crossings, but it seems they will get to it someday. They just added lights at a nearby intersection.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by dkf747

My kids ride a bus, but when there are after school activities, and I can't get there to pick them up, they walk home across Faulkner and Waxpool(not the busiest part of it), not to mention other busy roads. I don't like it because one portion has no sidewalks, and two places have no lights. One other place has just a 4 way stop signs. Faulkner isn't very busy, but Waxpool is sort of busy at that point. Shellhorn is very busy. I worry, but they've been okay so far. I would like to see lights at one of those crossings, but it seems they will get to it someday. They just added lights at a nearby intersection.

Sometimes it is the roads with more infrequent traffic (ie surprise traffic on a blind spot) that are more lethal than those with a lot of traffic and a light at the intersection. Again, I would absolutely be the first person to promote walking to school, but not when the jurisdiction is not taking on the responsibility of prioritizing the safety of those walkers versus the time savings of commuters. If Loudoun were interested in seeing how suburban areas can be made safer for school kids, they should look no further than the Fairfax program that has been on going for years. There is plenty of work still to be done in Fairfax also, but its a lot better now than it was in the early 2000s.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Sometimes it is the roads with more infrequent traffic (ie surprise traffic on a blind spot) that are more lethal than those with a lot of traffic and a light at the intersection. Again, I would absolutely be the first person to promote walking to school, but not when the jurisdiction is not taking on the responsibility of prioritizing the safety of those walkers versus the time savings of commuters. If Loudoun were interested in seeing how suburban areas can be made safer for school kids, they should look no further than the Fairfax program that has been on going for years. There is plenty of work still to be done in Fairfax also, but its a lot better now than it was in the early 2000s.

Maybe you could get Fairfax County and VDOT to improve the sidewalks and road crossings near the near Silver Line stations in Tysons. It's somewhat surreal to walk on the sidewalk on 123 when the cars are whizzing by at over 50 MPH and realize that you're on the same side of the guardrails as the cars (i.e., they create no barrier between cars and pedestrians, but only make sure the cars won't veer too far off the road after they've jumped the curb and crashed into people).

This is in Tysons and perhaps more within your sphere of influence than LCPS or the rest of Loudoun County.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Maybe you could get Fairfax County and VDOT to improve the sidewalks and road crossings near the near Silver Line stations in Tysons. It's somewhat surreal to walk on the sidewalk on 123 when the cars are whizzing by at over 50 MPH and realize that you're on the same side of the guardrails as the cars (i.e., they create no barrier between cars and pedestrians, but only make sure the cars won't veer too far off the road after they've jumped the curb and crashed into people).

This is in Tysons and perhaps more within your sphere of influence than LCPS or the rest of Loudoun County.

Yes, I already do that? If you had any idea how much of a nuisance I am to the board of supervisors and FCDOT staff...

but I get your jist, essentially, I should mind my own business? That's fair, but tomorrows Loudoun is todays Tysons... just remember that. Imagine the millions that could have been saved, the number of pedestrian deaths, the terrible traffic, had people addressed good design when an area was first being developed, instead of when it had hit a critical mass of total crap like in Tysons.

Oh well. Enjoy, I'll butt out I suppose.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by tysonsengineer

Yes, I already do that? If you had any idea how much of a nuisance I am to the board of supervisors and FCDOT staff...

but I get your jist, essentially, I should mind my own business? That's fair, but tomorrows Loudoun is todays Tysons... just remember that. Imagine the millions that could have been saved, the number of pedestrian deaths, the terrible traffic, had people addressed good design when an area was first being developed, instead of when it had hit a critical mass of total crap like in Tysons.

Oh well. Enjoy, I'll butt out I suppose.

Not really, it's just a suggestion as to an area where you're likely given your web page and Tysons-related advocacy to have more of an impact. I don't know if it would make a huge difference to the number of people willing to walk along 123 if the sidewalks and guardrails were configured differently, but I do know it would make a difference to their (our) sense of safety.

I'm sure you've made some good points along the way about challenges facing Loudoun, but I honestly think threads like the one you started here ultimately will be viewed with skepticism, since you don't live in Loudoun, and generally lead to further, opportunistic inter-regional sniping about what's "wrong" with Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington, etc. I get pretty tired of that, but have seen enough postings on different web forums where people take pot shots at the jurisdictions next door or across the river to know that it's easier to disengage than worry about it. If you lived in Brambleton and posted the same stuff, you'd likely be viewed as more of an "honest broker" on the subject because you'd have some skin in the Loudoun game.

[VRE332]

Loudoun County Parkway turns into Old Ox, then drive thru some neighborhoods and you can get Loudoun County parkway AGAIN, and then I love how Ryan Road ends in someone's back porch. Gotta love Loudoun's road design.

[tysonsengineer]

Originally Posted by JEB77

Not really, it's just a suggestion as to an area where you're likely given your web page and Tysons-related advocacy to have more of an impact. I don't know if it would make a huge difference to the number of people willing to walk along 123 if the sidewalks and guardrails were configured differently, but I do know it would make a difference to their (our) sense of safety.

I'm sure you've made some good points along the way about challenges facing Loudoun, but I honestly think threads like the one you started here ultimately will be viewed with skepticism, since you don't live in Loudoun, and generally lead to further, opportunistic inter-regional sniping about what's "wrong" with Loudoun, Fairfax, Arlington, etc. I get pretty tired of that, but have seen enough postings on different web forums where people take pot shots at the jurisdictions next door or across the river to know that it's easier to disengage than worry about it. If you lived in Brambleton and posted the same stuff, you'd likely be viewed as more of an "honest broker" on the subject because you'd have some skin in the Loudoun game.

Thats fair. I do of course care most about my own backyard here in Tysons. And I hope this didnt come off as a pot shot necessarily towards Loudoun. Lord knows Tysons has a hell of a lot of redesign and rework necessary to make it less dangerous to live in. As a person who frequently walks in town, as well as a wife who walks to metro on a daily basis it is beyond absurd that people's lives are put at risk for what would some pretty simple changes (albeit hard to sell politically due to the "dont touch my commute" sentiment)