Arlington streetcar plan dead (for now) (Alexandria, Columbia: live in, buses, yard)

[TheWatchmen]

Originally Posted by gomason

A couple months ago, $558 would have been spent. After you and other irate populists get done, it will be down to $0. That's okay though, i'm pretty sure no people or businesses will be moving into Arlington soon. We should start tearing down 50 and columbia pike because they just cost too much to maintain.

On another note, i was recently reading about the history of Metro and the irate populists from the 1960s who opposed the orange line under Wilson Blvd. they would have rather slowed growth with median stops on 66. I can guarantee you they would complain too when their property taxes increased too because of the reduced office and residential development. Funny how history repeats itself time and again.

End rant\

I think the certain streetcar enthusiast groups need to downplay the affordable housing angle of the streetcar, and emphasize the business, tax revenue and revitalization effects of it. Saying things like the streetcar was the "lynchpin" of an affordable housing plan will not win any favors with tony North Arlington.

Home - Arlington Streetcar NOW

[Zack]

I was originally pro streetcar, but after looking in to it in more detail and seeing what came about in DC, it's not that bad that it was cancelled. I've seen streetcars in Europe, but they typically had more cars and dedicated space than what was being proposed on Columbia Pike. The streetcars Arlington proposed look like articulated buses on rails.

The best plan for Columbia Pike would be to get the fare payment system off the buses and either use an honor system (with harsh fines) or put the payment boxes at the "super stops". Remove some of the close by bus stops and this should seriously speed up bus travel time since the stops would be quick and less frequent. Even at $1M per stop, this plan is still far cheaper than the streetcar and can obtain the same results.

[Old Guard]

The 16 route has an express line that skips some of the closer in stops. I have never had a problem with the bus service on Columbia Pike . . . other than being caught behind a bus in rush hour.

[highpoint1]

Originally Posted by gomason

After you and other irate populists get done, it will be down to $0. That's okay though, i'm pretty sure no people or businesses will be moving into Arlington soon. We should start tearing down 50 and columbia pike because they just cost too much to maintain.

Whoa, you mad bro? You don't know me, but I can assure you I'm neither irate nor a populist. By the way, I moved to Arlington and the Columbia Pike corridor in the last year.

[gomason]

Originally Posted by TheWatchmen

I think the certain streetcar enthusiast groups need to downplay the affordable housing angle of the streetcar, and emphasize the business, tax revenue and revitalization effects of it. Saying things like the streetcar was the "lynchpin" of an affordable housing plan will not win any favors with tony North Arlington.

Home - Arlington Streetcar NOW

Or they need to read an economic textbook. Very limited housing with good public transportation equals very expensive housing. A lot of housing with good public transportation means more extensive affordable housing. I lived in London -- some of the most diverse and poor neighborhoods are the most accessible public transportation hubs. Public transportation in London isn't unique -- it's the norm. It's the opposite here. Is it surprising people pay a premium for that?

Originally Posted by Zack

I was originally pro streetcar, but after looking in to it in more detail and seeing what came about in DC, it's not that bad that it was cancelled. I've seen streetcars in Europe, but they typically had more cars and dedicated space than what was being proposed on Columbia Pike. The streetcars Arlington proposed look like articulated buses on rails.

Except that wasn't my experience in London, Rome, or Frankfurt. I love this argument. I can name so many successful streetcar lines in Europe that don't have dedicated lanes.

Originally Posted by zack

The best plan for Columbia Pike would be to get the fare payment system off the buses and either use an honor system (with harsh fines) or put the payment boxes at the "super stops". Remove some of the close by bus stops and this should seriously speed up bus travel time since the stops would be quick and less frequent. Even at $1M per stop, this plan is still far cheaper than the streetcar and can obtain the same results.

Didn't you hear how expensive those super stops are???? Cats are still falling FYI.

Originally Posted by Old Guard

The 16 route has an express line that skips some of the closer in stops. I have never had a problem with the bus service on Columbia Pike . . . other than being caught behind a bus in rush hour.

I drive fairly regularly through Columbia Pike during rush hour. I'm still looking for these mystical traffic jams and the "terrible traffic" on Columbia Pike. After living in Northern Virginia the vast majority of my life, traffic on Columbia Pike is far, far from terrible.

[TheWatchmen]

Originally Posted by gomason

some of the most diverse and poor neighborhoods are the most accessible public transportation hubs. Public transportation in London isn't unique -- it's the norm. It's the opposite here. Is it surprising people pay a premium for that?

People pay a premium for fixed-rail public transportation.

Bus service is public transportation, and I live in a "diverse and poor" locale in the area, and my county planning officials love to laud the many bus lines that pass nearby, in self-congratulatory celebration of the numerous ways that I am supposedly served by public transportation.

I don't take the bus. Anywhere. I want fixed rail closer by, but I don't see it happening. They'll just keep extending the silver line down beyond civilization.

[johnsonkk]

I agree that I've not seen traffic backups on Columbia pike. Certainly not what we're seeing every day now on 395 south near the Pentagon, EVERY day. The street car isn't working in DC either, even after it's built, they can't get the streetcar to travel safely.

The project that doesn't make sense is the separate bus lanes on US1 that run between Crystal city and Alexandria. The equally confusing part is the separate bus "station" the is at the south end of Crystal drive in Crystal city. That bus station takes up half the roadway and its really just a glorified bus stop. Buses are great but they don't need to take two lanes of road and create a multi-lane bus station.

[rmm0484]

Originally Posted by johnsonkk

The project that doesn't make sense is the separate bus lanes on US1 that run between Crystal city and Alexandria. The equally confusing part is the separate bus "station" the is at the south end of Crystal drive in Crystal city. That bus station takes up half the roadway and its really just a glorified bus stop. Buses are great but they don't need to take two lanes of road and create a multi-lane bus station.

This project really does not make sense if you are aware that the Alexandria City Council wants a Metro stop near Potomac Yards!! Moreover, the ridership on the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) is very low, so how did Alexandria justify the BRT?

[paulbunyan]

Originally Posted by gomason

Or they need to read an economic textbook. Very limited housing with good public transportation equals very expensive housing. A lot of housing with good public transportation means more extensive affordable housing. I lived in London -- some of the most diverse and poor neighborhoods are the most accessible public transportation hubs. Public transportation in London isn't unique -- it's the norm. It's the opposite here. Is it surprising people pay a premium for that?



Except that wasn't my experience in London, Rome, or Frankfurt. I love this argument. I can name so many successful streetcar lines in Europe that don't have dedicated lanes.



Didn't you hear how expensive those super stops are???? Cats are still falling FYI.



I drive fairly regularly through Columbia Pike during rush hour. I'm still looking for these mystical traffic jams and the "terrible traffic" on Columbia Pike. After living in Northern Virginia the vast majority of my life, traffic on Columbia Pike is far, far from terrible.

Your last paragraph lost me. I drive on Columbia Pike daily between Carlin Springs and the dam on Columbia Pike. 75% of the time it is bumper to bumper traffic.

[johnsonkk]

Originally Posted by rmm0484

This project really does not make sense if you are aware that the Alexandria City Council wants a Metro stop near Potomac Yards!! Moreover, the ridership on the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) is very low, so how did Alexandria justify the BRT?

Noticed today new signs going up in Crystal Drive indicating that one lane thru the entire road will soon be a bus lane. Impact would be minimal except every tenth car or bus tries turning left and there are no left turn lanes. With one lane a bus lane, backups will become normal when they never were an issue. How does this help by creating traffic problems when there were none?