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Don't forget some cars actually appreciate in value. An '80s 911 was in the $15K-$20K range 5 years ago. Now they're almost double that. (Yes, I do kick myself.) Likewise, the LR Defender 90 is still worth its purchase price from the mid-1990s, as they were only imported into the US for three years. The late-80s BMW M3 has seen a massive increase; they're basically $40K cars now, in most cases. Ten or 15 years ago, they weren't even half that.
The cheapest way to own a car will always be to buy one at the bottom of the depreciation curve and do the work yourself.
So few cars are worth more over the long term that it's silly to even bring it up in an argument over car ownership. The ones worth most are also the ones driven the least - i.e. not commuter cars. I can't think of any realistic daily driver car built since 2000 that is appreciating. Ford and Carrera GT's don't count.
I do wanna tell the guy who I always see at the gym in a 993 turbo to stop driving it so much though
The cheapest way to own a car will always be to buy one at the bottom of the depreciation curve and do the work yourself.
So few cars are worth more over the long term that it's silly to even bring it up in an argument over car ownership. The ones worth most are also the ones driven the least - i.e. not commuter cars. I can't think of any realistic daily driver car built since 2000 that is appreciating. Ford and Carrera GT's don't count.
I do wanna tell the guy who I always see at the gym in a 993 turbo to stop driving it so much though
Well, I didn't bring it up at first because most cars don't appreciate. But a few do.
As to post-2000 "future classics"--I'd say the 2000-2001 BMW M Coupe (the "clown shoe") is already there. The Z3 Coupes (same body but not as fast) may follow. The 1M is already there. The Cayman R will surely be one. I think the Audi S4 (manual) might end up being one. I think the newest generation of Corvettes may end up being future classics--fast, good-looking, and not all that common anymore.
Here's an article with more proposed future classics. Not sure I agree with 'em all (Dodge Magnum, really?), but it's interesting.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 04-16-2015 at 03:59 PM..
Don't forget some cars actually appreciate in value. An '80s 911 was in the $15K-$20K range 5 years ago. Now they're almost double that. (Yes, I do kick myself.) Likewise, the LR Defender 90 is still worth its purchase price from the mid-1990s, as they were only imported into the US for three years. The late-80s BMW M3 has seen a massive increase; they're basically $40K cars now, in most cases. Ten or 15 years ago, they weren't even half that.
Time out. I highly doubt an LR Defender, if it had actually been used (per mile basis remember) retained the same value as it did in 1990s. You are misinterpretting antique collector items (where condition matters) for what happens as you use an object (depreciation).
It wouldn't matter if my job was in my basement, and I lived next door to a metro station, in my ultimate dream home, I'd still have a car, and it'd be my primary source of transportation. Why? Because I don't like having my personal space being violated by strangers. I don't trust them.
Plus, you need a car for emergencies.
Last fall my 6 year old son broke his arm, both bones in his left forearm. I'm not going to call an ambulance and wait for them to come pick him up and take him to the hospital. I put him in one of my two cars and hauled tail to the hospital. I got there just about as fast as they'd of gotten to me. You simply need a source of transportation 24/7 on a moments notice sometimes. That ambulance ride would've cost 3 times what ever that report says it costs to own a car on an annual basis.
TE, you know what I do for a living. I have yet to see an apartment project deliver in this overall DC market that didn't include a parking income proforma of roughly $250+ per space during these past few year of apartment development boom. Regardless if they're sitting in what used to be the actual parking lot of a major metro station, or in the burbs. Interestingly enough, they get that income. I always haircut that income when I underwrite, because that type of fee is usually one of the first to go when apartment owners are fighting for tenants, but once stabilized, it comes roaring back.
I'm looking at one right now that will be located within 300 feet of an actual metro station downtown. Parking space count is down (.30 per unit), but not because of the metro station, but because of the abundance of parking options in the area in general, with more to come.
I agree, cars are a burden and stress the system. But are necessary for so many reasons that public transportation will never be able to fully satisfy.
I know a man who lives in Reston, works downtown. I asked him if he was using the new silver line now. Said he tried it for a while, and hated it. Said it didn't really save him enough time or money to justify having to rely on it and put up with the crowded cars during rush hour. He went back to driving in/out for the 9/5 job.
Time out. I highly doubt an LR Defender, if it had actually been used (per mile basis remember) retained the same value as it did in 1990s. You are misinterpretting antique collector items (where condition matters) for what happens as you use an object (depreciation).
Look it up; they have lost very little value--and any value loss seems to be entirely based on mileage. The MSRP back in 1994 was about $44K. Last October, Bring-A-Trailer featured a '94 model with 128K on the clock. Sold for $33K. (For some reason, C-D software won't let me post the link, but it's easy to find if you got to that site and search for Defender 90.) They've always been in demand because they have strong appeal for a large number of people in comparison to the number imported for the US. I've seen them asking $40K with slightly fewer miles than that.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 04-17-2015 at 05:27 AM..
I know a man who lives in Reston, works downtown. I asked him if he was using the new silver line now. Said he tried it for a while, and hated it. Said it didn't really save him enough time or money to justify having to rely on it and put up with the crowded cars during rush hour. He went back to driving in/out for the 9/5 job.
Do you know what part of DC he works in? The downtown/west end part of the city is so terribly gridlocked during rush hour that I can't ever imagine driving in and out everyday. There's not even a highway connection between Reston and DC during rush hour.
Another overlooked factor is the ability to read on public transit. For people like me, who love a good history book or magazine, it's a great chance to read a chapter or two. If you're not a big reader and just sit on the train staring at the ceiling, then I could see it getting a little annoying.
From Reston, you won't save time on the Silver Line if you work in DC and have a car and are willing to pay a toll. If you don't want to pay the toll, you will save time. If you work in Arlington, you will save time. If you work in Tysons you'll break even depending on how far you live from Wiehle. Transit isn't for everyone, you have to either save time, save cost, or need it due to no other means of transpo. It's not at all what the study link is about
I repeat
This is about aggregates and the likelihood of reducing your transportation costs by living in certain areas over others. If you no matter what hate transit and even if it would save you time would never take it, well you are in luck because housing away from metro is way cheaper! Hence why a lot of people don't buy next to metro if they like driving. When you multiply those decisions on where to work/live across a metro of 5 million people you get pretty good data.
Hey, someone should plot that data to see if there is a difference in transportation costs
... oh wait.
Anecdote is meaningless. I'm glad you like your car. I'm indifferent towards mine, looks like about 20% of people in my zip code are too, and about 35% in Carlingtonians hood, and about 50% in DC. Statistics is a great thing, I wonder what the world would be like if we did all of our planning based on hear say and anecdotes instead.
One thing I agree about.
If you don't want to take transit, then you will own a car, and if you own a car you have a start off cost to it.
One thing no one is getting yet.
Depending on where you live, you may not have a choice, that is what the driver of the cost is. People in Arlington, Alexandria, Tysons, and DC (and FC and Vienna and other areas with metro) have that option if they want to live car-light or *gasp!* car-free if they live in a true city like DC or Arlington. Many of them take that option. Many of them don't. Some of them grow older have kids and choose to get a car in the burbs, Arlington however has good statistics showing that the old diatribe on that is proving false with surging family populations in the urban core and still low traffic counts.
Statistics, again, is what this is about. Not personal preferences of any particular person.
Do you know what part of DC he works in? The downtown/west end part of the city is so terribly gridlocked during rush hour that I can't ever imagine driving in and out everyday. There's not even a highway connection between Reston and DC during rush hour.
Right. I call BS. My house is 9 miles from the Kennedy Center and I wouldn't even consider driving into DC for a daily commute, unless it was during non-rush hour traffic. It would take me an hour plus, probably. And I really have to go out of my way to use public transportation.
The only people that I've known who lived in Reston and work in Arlington or DC who have a somewhat easy car commute are those who carpool and take the toll road to 66. Without 66, it would be hell.
Right. I call BS. My house is 9 miles from the Kennedy Center and I wouldn't even consider driving into DC for a daily commute, unless it was during non-rush hour traffic. It would take me an hour plus, probably. And I really have to go out of my way to use public transportation.
The only people that I've known who lived in Reston and work in Arlington or DC who have a somewhat easy car commute are those who carpool and take the toll road to 66. Without 66, it would be hell.
I drive into DC every single day. Easier and much faster than stopping at Reston, getting on the Metro, switching to the Red line and heading up towards Tenleytown.
(I agree with TE, that anecdotes aren't relative to statistics, but just letting you know that people do drive into DC every day and it isn't hell.)
TE: The problem with so-called "statistic" of annual auto ownership cost produced by this calculator you linked to is that it is not a statistic; it's an ESTIMATE, based on no facts at all other than the cost of gasoline. I zeroed in on my "Block Group," but the "cost" it's giving me is based on nothing--because it did not ask me to enter what I paid for our car(s), the insurance cost, the miles driven to work in a given week, the cost of parking--nothing.
So there are too many unknown variables for the "data" in this calculator to be meaningful. Obviously, the cost of car ownership (in general, not as a commuting cost) is hugely dependent on the cost of the car. One can easily find an old, higher-mileage Corolla, Accord, or Crown Vic for $2-$3K. Or it could be a $100K luxury car. And then the cost has to be measured against the period of time the vehicle is in use--which could be 5 years or 20 years. What's the mpg of the car? How many miles is the person driving? What does insurance cost for that car? And on and on.
I'm not trying to assert that driving costs nothing. The costs--gas, insurance, repairs, tolls, tickets--do add up. And I will agree that one can often avoid spending a huge amount of money by not owning a car. But that savings is usually offset by the higher cost of housing that is close enough to retail and transit to make non-car living practical. The formerly inexpensive housing in mixed-use areas near transit has largely been replaced by development.
Last edited by Carlingtonian; 04-17-2015 at 08:59 AM..
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