Rolling Thunder - What a Crock (Manassas, Washington: 2013, to rent, hotels)

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Rolling Thunder is group recreation masquerading as protest. For one, it's extremely unlikely there any MIAs who are still alive. That doesn't mean the government shouldn't do what it can to resolve the fate of those still missing (now likely deceased)--but that ostensible cause has taken a backseat to a generalized expression of militarism. Memorial Day is really supposed to be a day of mourning, not a day of revving your engine and yelling "
AMERICA, F*** YEAH!" It's not the Fourth of July.

And why would a protest against government inaction in finding MIAs need to be done by riding motorcycles around the Capitol on a weekend? Do these people even know how government works? Congress isn't even in session this weekend, and even if it were, the members do not care one bit about any protest.

These bike riders would be FAR more likely to get something done by staying at home and sending all the money they would've spent on their DC trip to a PAC focused on the MIA issue. An even better use of the money would be to donate it to a charity focused on living veterans (or the children of those killed in combat).

Many of the riders are not very considerate; just yesterday morning I was driving down route 50 westbound, and three of them were in the left lane, going about 35--on a road with a 45-mph limit. I had to pass them on the right. When a 23-year-old wagon with a boat on the roof passes you, that should tell you you're going too slow.

Finally, I detest the whole Harley subculture--the "I'm such a rebel by wearing the same clothes as all these other flabby, middle-aged people" ethos.

If you want to help veterans, hire one. Or volunteer. Or donate money. But riding your motorcycle on a group ride is just that.

Maybe had these "protests" been done after the Vietnam war there would be fewer MIA's. I have several veteran friends who have ridden every year of RT and they would argue strongly with some of what you have to say on this matter.

EDIT: Ok, why the heck did that video pop up on my post?

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

Maybe had these "protests" been done after the Vietnam war there would be fewer MIA's.

Maybe, maybe not. There was plenty of protesting against the war overall, but the only thing that ended it was Nixon's fear of not getting re-elected in '72, as shown by his own recordings of his phone chats with Kissinger (recently featured in an HBO special).

At any rate, if the real reason for the current motorcycle ride were to pressure Congress, these guys would be protesting in front of the members' home-district offices, not riding into town on a three-day weekend.

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

I have several veteran friends who have ridden every year of RT and they would argue strongly with some of what you have to say on this matter.

They're entitled to their opinion--as are what I'm sure are the many Vietnam veterans who think this event is a giant motorcycle party.

All that said, I'll give the motorcyclists this much: They're a sight better than the Occupy protesters who infested DC a couple of years ago. I wanted someone to set those people on fire.

(The video I linked in my post--evidently the software replaced some code when you did the quote reply--and is an exaggeration of what society has twisted Memorial Day and Veterans' Day into.)

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

And why would a protest against government inaction in finding MIAs need to be done by riding motorcycles around the Capitol on a weekend? Do these people even know how government works? Congress isn't even in session this weekend, and even if it were, the members do not care one bit about any protest.

Well, the Rolling Thunder organization wrote and was able to get passed through Congress the Missing Service Personnel Act of 1993. The motorcycle ride, itself, is a means of awareness. It's just like any other massive march. Would you also say the "March on Washington" of 1963 was also pointless?

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

For the record: Like a lot of people, I could stand to drop a couple pounds myself. But I don't have my bare belly hanging out while parading around in public. That's what the OP is getting at--the whole black leather/exposed midriffs (or worse!)/bandanas-and-ponytails white-trashiness of many (by no means all) of the riders. It's like a giant herd of Hells Angel wannabes rolled into town.

Seriously?? You don't like a group because a percentage of them are overweight? I live in Middleburg and have hundreds of bikers drive through weekly; thousands this weekend. While many of them are over weight, I have never actually seen anyone's bare midriff! But if we are now calling out groups of people who are overweight, let's start going after the teachers in our schools. Thinking back to my 16 years of education, no less than 75% were overweight. EGAD!! UGH!! I'M DISGUSTED!! I'm amazed I can read or write!!!!


I have no ties to Rolling Thunder, nor have I ever ridden a motorcycle. But it is not a bad thing for them to keep awareness of something that no one else does. Yes, most are likely dead. But their goal is to account for each and every one of them. Is anyone else doing that?

When I was 10, I was visiting DC with my family and happened to see a couple of motorcycles near the Vietnam Memorial. I saw the black MIA flags, and asked my parents what is stood for. They explained what it meant. Instead of being taught this at school or at home (and I am from a military family), I learned by seeing one of the flags on a bike.

So this is a bad thing???

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by spencgr

Well, the Rolling Thunder organization wrote and was able to get passed through Congress the Missing Service Personnel Act of 1993. The motorcycle ride, itself, is a means of awareness. It's just like any other massive march. Would you also say the "March on Washington" of 1963 was also pointless?

A big chunk of your post completely mischaracterized what I said. I don't care that the bikers are overweight. I do think they look disreputable with the ridiculous biker-gang outfits and yes, the bare bellies, love handles, and butt cracks hanging out everywhere. Drive down Route 1 in Crystal City tomorrow and you'll see what I mean. It's like a meth festival down there every year. Does someone's flab spilling over a pair of ragged jeans honor the men who gave their lives for the country?

The claim that RT alone got that legislation passed is surely an oversimplification. I suspect other groups and citizens were involved. But even if RT played a major part, it wasn't the yearly motorcycle-riding that gained congressional support but multiple smaller meetings with members of Congress and their staffs. That's how it works.

I think protests in general only serve to alienate people who might normally be sympathetic--due to the noise and the revocation by group force of the public's right to use the roads. The protests of the Civil Rights movement were probably the one exception--mostly because they were actually quiet, tranquil protests by people in suits, until the hoses and dogs were turned on them. I think when white Americans saw stoic, well-dressed African Americans getting attacked on TV, they immediately got the wrongness of segregation and disenfranchisement in a way they hadn't before.

The motorcycle party is just that. It's not protesting, because 1. the audience (Congress) has gone home for the break, and 2. it isn't even clear what they're asking Congress to do. I saw one guy interviewed on the news say it was "veterans' issues."

OK, so if that's true, why don't they blast into town in the middle of a work week and protest in front of the VA? The VA actually killed veterans recently, with its manufactured waiting lists. Isn't that a more pressing issue?

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

OK, so if that's true, why don't they blast into town in the middle of a work week and protest in front of the VA? The VA actually killed veterans recently, with its manufactured waiting lists. Isn't that a more pressing issue?

Likely because they aren't getting a permit from DC to do so. Not saying they have tried to, but the point isn't "Congressional awareness", it is public awareness.

Look, I will not deny that there are many (out of the million or so) who don't understand what the intent is. But all of the people that I have spoken to (on bikes in my town) are immediately focused on honoring service members, remembering those who are lost, and bringing awareness to the bodies that haven't been brought home. It isn't a party to them, it's a remembrance. I'm sorry people feel the need to judge the appearance of those who choose to honor. I didn't know there were weight and beauty qualifications.

"Rolling Thunder", itself, is intended to be a solemn event; and it's on Sunday. (The noise of the motorcycles was intended to represent thunder). Memorial Day, itself, is reserved for quiet remembrance.

[Carlingtonian]

"Awareness"--the meaningless, immeasurable feel-good term groups use when they want to avoid being held responsible for actually getting something done and just want to have an event while patting themselves on the back. E.g., "March/Walk/Run/Ride to Raise Cancer/Hunger/Rape/Homelessness/Other Social Ill Awareness." This isn't 1750; lack of awareness is not the problem.

To address the claim of the Rolling Thunder group that it was solely or largely responsible for the Missing Service Members Recovery Act:

This 1996 thesis from an Army JAG attorney is a very readable yet detailed account of the history behind the bill that was finally passed in 1995. I note that nowhere in the 196 pages does "Rolling Thunder" or even just "thunder" appear:

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a444429.pdf

I also found this statement from then-Rep. Bernie Sanders, who (along with several other Members, apparently) had introduced legislation by that name in previous years (which never left the committee stage). He cites several individuals and groups by name--but never Rolling Thunder:

http://capitolwords.org/date/1996/03...-personnel-ac/

[arabellava]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot424

Maybe had these "protests" been done after the Vietnam war there would be fewer MIA's. I have several veteran friends who have ridden every year of RT and they would argue strongly with some of what you have to say on this matter.

EDIT: Ok, why the heck did that video pop up on my post?

laughing so hard on that video being posted but as you said not on purpose..

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by TheHead

I smell bacon.

Does mommy know you're playing on the internet?

[dkf747]

I don't see anything wrong with Rolling Thunder, and I'm glad it's on a holiday weekend. I would not like the disruption it would cause if it was during a regular weekday. Most that I have seen are not overweight either. A bunch of them sleep at my church every year. They're very nice people. It's too bad people are too scared to get to know them.

[gomason]

What's the Vietnam War?

In all seriousness, all the motorcycles can get very annoying when you're trying to get around town and the Park Service closed the Memorial Bridge which is my usual way home. In the grand scheme of things, they're not nearly as annoying as the stupid Cherry Blossom Tourists who gridlock downtown for miles. These bikers are great for our local economy too. Roach motels in Manassas that never sell out always sell out Memorial Day Weekend.