DC/NoVA Tech Economy Losing Ground

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11

Will be sad to go, but this area's fallen too far. Had to accept reality and move on.

Spoken too soon?

Since this thread was created in 2015, A LOT has happened since. Namely, the largest tech giant in North America placing a 2nd headquarters in NOVA, by selecting the DC region over America's titans in tech. Up to 38,000 techies will be jumping in and around Arlington in the upcoming years. Many more tech companies have expanded in the region too. With a growing cluster on the way in Arlington in about 5 years.

Because of the Amazon move NOVA now can look forward to projects like this, which will shape the regions tech talent recruitment for generations to come:

https://www.bizjournals.com/washingt..._news_headline

https://www.bizjournals.com/washingt...s-for-its.html

[columbusboy8]

Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11

I'm just starting the process to move full-time to San Francisco by next summer. I can't tell you how sad I am about this. I much prefer DC as a city, it's got great energy, people from all over, and is far cleaner than the city by the Bay. And it's warmer and less provincial than NY or Boston, and offers a cosmopolitan lifestyle with far less hassle than those regions. Plus, there's pro-business Northern Virginia next door, which has a lower tax burden, and more educated population, than any of the major tech cities. However, this region is addicted to Federal dollars, and has a remarkably weak commercial tech economy.

Northern Virginia has always accounted for most of the activity here, and somehow its leaders, tech workers, and economic development officials just let things slide back to Pentagon dependency.

Even with the recovery of the last five years, this region's commercial tech economy has gotten worse. Its share of VC keeps dropping. In the late 90s/2000 boom, we were getting close to NY and Boston for VC dollars raised, pulling in as much as $1.5 billion/quarter. The $200 million/quarter we raise now isn't just nearly 10x less than NY and Boston, it's less than we raised during the bust in 2002.

10 years ago, the choice for a commercial tech worker was working in Tyson's or Reston. Today's it's deteriorated to working in a home office or inside a data center.

There is a lot of interest in new technology here, more than most places, but mostly in using it to build things for the government, and using technology from companies based elsewhere. Yeah, there are a couple software/cloud companies like Cvent, Microstrategy, K2, etc. But for every company here, there are 10 in Boston, never mind Silicon Valley. Very different from the days when webmethods was one of the fastest growing software companies anywhere and UUNet was the leader in Internet infrastructure.

Could things turn around? No. Reason is so many of the great engineers here are lured by the government, get security clearances or 8A designations, and begin operating in an environment that you really only get here. One where the client doesn't need to make a profit, has endless rules and regulations, and a culture that's 180 degrees away from the vibrant, entrepreneurial pace I see in even large companies in Boston, Seattle, or San Francisco. Sequesters and shutdowns do nothing to shake people out of it.

My wife works in HR, and really feels the culture differences. She also likes DC better than SF, but likes their companies much better.

Will be sad to go, but this area's fallen too far. Had to accept reality and move on.

Good luck, and goodbye.

[sonnymarkjiz]

I walked into this thread scratching my head, then I looked at the year. Wow, what a difference just 5 years has made.

[the resident09]

Originally Posted by sonnymarkjiz

I walked into this thread scratching my head, then I looked at the year. Wow, what a difference just 5 years has made.

Yea this is more new beginnings of the DC/NOVA tech scene finally flourishing, not the end of it if you ask me. The new presence of the VA Tech innovation campus and GMU new expansion for innovation will be permanent fixtures on the region's tech scene. Companies for generations to come will be able to expand their presence, because they know they can rely on the talent base coming out of the region.

I mean, I get the OP's concerns at the time of the article being written, but it's exactly his gripe about the lack of a vibrant and diverse tech scene in 2015, that has been getting reversed since. It's not just Amazon too, other companies have been making expanding their presence. Things will be drastically different by 2030 I can imagine maybe sooner, but I understand if a person simply couldn't wait until then.

[phobos512]

I have no idea why anyone would want to move to California, especially the Bay Area, from here. Mass transit is far more limited, traffic is far, far worse, taxes are higher, housing markets are much tighter and far more expensive... I grew up there, and my parents and brother/SIL still live there. They can have it.

[MrJester]

Originally Posted by phobos512

I have no idea why anyone would want to move to California, especially the Bay Area, from here. Mass transit is far more limited, traffic is far, far worse, taxes are higher, housing markets are much tighter and far more expensive... I grew up there, and my parents and brother/SIL still live there. They can have it.

Really? Granted, I've only visited SF and DC/NoVA, but NoVA traffic isn't that bad compared to SF? INRIX says DC is worse than SF and LA, but who knows, maybe all the traffic in SF is concentrated in Downtown and along the bridges while in DC it's more spread out.

But yeah, everything else you say--higher taxes, crappier mass transit, higher COL, all true about the Bay Area. For a city as dense as SF the mass transit system is a disaster.

1. Violent crime rates on the SF BART are FOUR TIMES HIGHER than those on the DC Metro.
2. Rush hour weekday headways on an individual line stand at 15 minutes; on weekends you could be waiting for up to 24 minutes for a train. Compare this to the DC Metro, whose individual lines have weekday rush hour headways of 8 minutes except for the Red Line, where it's six minutes.
4. The SF BART only has half as many stations as the DC Metro. TOD in the Bay Area is nothing compared to Tysons Corner, Rosslyn, etc.
5. There's only ONE heavy rail corridor going through SF city proper. The rest of SF is connected by a streetcar named Muni Metro--it is THE SLOWEST light rail system in the NATION, averaging 10 mph.

And I could go on and on, about how much cleaner the DC Metro is, how much quieter and smoother the DC trains are, how much more new rolling stock the DC Metro is, etc.

The DC Metro is hands down the cleanest light rail or subway system I've been on in the whole country. In my opinion, its cleanliness is actually on par with the Vienna and Munich U-Bahns. Now it's not the Singapore MRT, which has full height platform screen doors, fully automated trains, and trains every two minutes, but still, DC Metro's pretty darn clean.

As for weather, once again I have really only been to both SF and DC in late spring/early summer. I'll take DC's muggy thunderstorms over SF's chilly summers. Summer is supposed to be hot. A chilly summer with zero thunderstorms is a lame summer.

Winter? SF may not snow, but I like snow. I like seeing trees lose their leaves. I like the four seasons. Something that happens in DC but not SF.

I think people are underestimating how fast-paced SF/San Jose is. Remember, SF is the second most dense major city in the nation. On top of that, the Bay Area is defined by its tech industry--which by definition moves at a much faster pace than the government, which is DC's main industry. The government bureaucracy was never known for moving very fast.

Ah, finally, some sense! Someone actually being honest and not simply saying "West Coast Best Coast" and then assuming SF is automatically better than DC.

[phobos512]

Originally Posted by MrJester

Really? Granted, I've only visited SF and DC/NoVA, but NoVA traffic isn't that bad compared to SF? INRIX says DC is worse than SF and LA, but who knows, maybe all the traffic in SF is concentrated in Downtown and along the bridges while in DC it's more spread out.

I am unfamiliar with INRIX, but experientially, and I am only one person, I've never spent four hours on any highway in or around DC during rush hour to drive 24 miles and yet every time I've ever left LAX after arriving in the afternoon I have spent two to four hours crawling up the 405 trying to get to my former home. According to Wikipedia, the 405 is the most heavily traveled highway in the country.


I grew up in the Bay Area and lived 14 years in Southern California so I saw it all. I'd want to know how that company rated that traffic is worse in DC. I've certainly read reports that indicate DC has "the worst" drivers in the country (not sure by what metric). I've certainly seen my share.

[MrJester]

Originally Posted by phobos512

I am unfamiliar with INRIX, but experientially, and I am only one person, I've never spent four hours on any highway in or around DC during rush hour to drive 24 miles and yet every time I've ever left LAX after arriving in the afternoon I have spent two to four hours crawling up the 405 trying to get to my former home. According to Wikipedia, the 405 is the most heavily traveled highway in the country.


I grew up in the Bay Area and lived 14 years in Southern California so I saw it all. I'd want to know how that company rated that traffic is worse in DC. I've certainly read reports that indicate DC has "the worst" drivers in the country (not sure by what metric). I've certainly seen my share.

You could be right. And yeah, getting to LAX is the WORST. You have a megacity's primary airport that doesn't even have a single rail connection to LAX! (They're building one, but it's going to require a couple transfers on some light rail lines that will run at-grade and have to stop for traffic lights before you get to downtown--basically a very slow ride). Oh, and why, oh why, is LAX located so, so, so, far from Orange County? Why couldn't LAX have been more centrally located?

D.C.'s Dulles and Reagan definitely are more conveniently located within the metro area, and they both have (or will soon have, in the case of Dulles), fully-grade separated one-seat rides on the DC Metro to Central D.C.