NOVA Traffic

[paytonc]

Originally Posted by macalan

It seems that Alexandria and Arlington are the largest cities in NOVA and not that large. The other towns/cities - Fairfax, Reston, Falls Church - all seem surprisingly small.

As I've mentioned to you in another thread, the principal units of government south of the Mason-Dixon Line are counties, not towns or townships. This goes back to how English colonial land grants were parceled out. Therefore, you should not compare town populations between New England and the Mid-Atlantic. (Nor can you compare county governments, since New England doesn't have many!)

Most people in Virginia and Maryland, in particular, live in unincorporated counties. Fairfax County has a population of over 1.1 million, with 96% living in the unincorporated county; there are over 600,000 jobs within the county. The county's $7 billion annual budget covers most of the services that a city provides: schools, buses, trash, libraries, parks, firefighters, planning & zoning, courts, jails, etc. If it were a city, it would be the country's 10th largest, just behind Dallas.

All those people and all those jobs result in a lot of trips, which would strain just about any area's transport infrastructure.

[NOVAmtneer82]

Originally Posted by leighland

We have Orange County CA Traffic Patterns
Days are planned around traffic
We arent LA, yet.....

Agreed- this absolutely sums it up best albeit with the exception of I-95- if you're able to carpool aka 'slug' or pay the peak direction toll on the 95 corridor for a commute you're in much better shape. It's literally hell on earth otherwise - in particular during peak commute times and summer weekends / Thanksgiving and other major holidays. I once left Tysons during a very rainy summer Friday to visit some friends in Virginia Beach (idiot move I admit but was new to the area) and literally spent over three hours in the main lanes and only made it 50ish miles to Fredericksburg. I was so frustrated and annoyed by that time and then got minorly rear-ended which turned frustration into near insanity so I got a hotel room and continued the rest of my trip the next morning!

[slowlane3]

There have been no new Potomac River crossings added since 1965 (except for Metrorail), and during that time, overall area population has tripled or quadrupled.

It's an extremely competitive area, with high demand driving up the price of housing. People working in NoVa's hot booming economy cannot afford the type of homes their families would like, anywhere near where they work, so they commute ungodly distances from the distant exurbs like Prince William, Loudoun, and Stafford counties, Martinsburg, or from Southern Maryland, Waldorf, etc. across the Wilson Bridge.

You also have areas in Fairfax County such as Great Falls, Clifton, and Dranesville which are legally zoned rural or low-density. It would make sense for many of the 120,000 employees around Tysons Corner to live in those places, but they cannot, so home developers have to "leapfrog" further out to build in Sterling, Manassas, and Ashburn, thus adding to the distance people must travel.

Then there's the peculiar law that prohibits taxi-drivers from picking-up outside the state they're licensed in. So at National and Dulles Airports, you have millions of taxis from MD and DC dropping off passengers, and these taxis then have to return back to DC or MD, EMPTY before they're even allowed to pick up another fare. This is needlessly redundant, and adds greatly to the traffic volume, and air pollution. Repairmen and tradesmen also simply cannot afford to live in NoVA. I see a great many work vans in NoVA on the Beltway, labeled with names of contractor businesses in Southern MD.

[Bigfoot424]

Originally Posted by slowlane3

There have been no new Potomac River crossings added since 1965 (except for Metrorail), and during that time, overall area population has tripled or quadrupled.

It's an extremely competitive area, with high demand driving up the price of housing. People working in NoVa's hot booming economy cannot afford the type of homes their families would like, anywhere near where they work, so they commute ungodly distances from the distant exurbs like Prince William, Loudoun, and Stafford counties, Martinsburg, or from Southern Maryland, Waldorf, etc. across the Wilson Bridge.

You also have areas in Fairfax County such as Great Falls, Clifton, and Dranesville which are legally zoned rural or low-density. It would make sense for many of the 120,000 employees around Tysons Corner to live in those places, but they cannot, so home developers have to "leapfrog" further out to build in Sterling, Manassas, and Ashburn, thus adding to the distance people must travel.

Then there's the peculiar law that prohibits taxi-drivers from picking-up outside the state they're licensed in. So at National and Dulles Airports, you have millions of taxis from MD and DC dropping off passengers, and these taxis then have to return back to DC or MD, EMPTY before they're even allowed to pick up another fare. This is needlessly redundant, and adds greatly to the traffic volume, and air pollution. Repairmen and tradesmen also simply cannot afford to live in NoVA. I see a great many work vans in NoVA on the Beltway, labeled with names of contractor businesses in Southern MD.

I don't agree with you on this. VA localities can only regulate cabs registered to operate within their jurisdictions. Unless something has changed since I retired but I doubt it. Arlington can certainly cite cabbies from MD/DC for violations that happen in Arlington that are criminal and traffic in nature but they cannot deal with complaints and cab violations that would be a violation if committed by an Arlington based driver.

[CoogHawk]

Originally Posted by slowlane3

There have been no new Potomac River crossings added since 1965 (except for Metrorail), and during that time, overall area population has tripled or quadrupled.

It's an extremely competitive area, with high demand driving up the price of housing. People working in NoVa's hot booming economy cannot afford the type of homes their families would like, anywhere near where they work, so they commute ungodly distances from the distant exurbs like Prince William, Loudoun, and Stafford counties, Martinsburg, or from Southern Maryland, Waldorf, etc. across the Wilson Bridge.

You also have areas in Fairfax County such as Great Falls, Clifton, and Dranesville which are legally zoned rural or low-density. It would make sense for many of the 120,000 employees around Tysons Corner to live in those places, but they cannot, so home developers have to "leapfrog" further out to build in Sterling, Manassas, and Ashburn, thus adding to the distance people must travel.

Then there's the peculiar law that prohibits taxi-drivers from picking-up outside the state they're licensed in. So at National and Dulles Airports, you have millions of taxis from MD and DC dropping off passengers, and these taxis then have to return back to DC or MD, EMPTY before they're even allowed to pick up another fare. This is needlessly redundant, and adds greatly to the traffic volume, and air pollution. Repairmen and tradesmen also simply cannot afford to live in NoVA. I see a great many work vans in NoVA on the Beltway, labeled with names of contractor businesses in Southern MD.

Ha your last statement reminded me of my own experience living in NoVa.

I had to have internet installed in my home in Centreville. I chose Cox and they sent a guy out from Ohio to do the install! I asked the contractor about it and he said he lived in southeastern OH and drove to NoVa for work every week.

Crazy.

[lchoro]

Originally Posted by slowlane3

There have been no new Potomac River crossings added since 1965 (except for Metrorail), and during that time, overall area population has tripled or quadrupled.

The Western sprawl is mostly on the Virginia side. On the Maryland side, the development has followed 270 out towards Frederick and Clarksburg. Potomac and Great Falls are very wealthy towns. A river crossing would be abused by commuters and create a mess on both sides where there's Potomac River parks set aside.

[NOVAmtneer82]

Originally Posted by lchoro

The Western sprawl is mostly on the Virginia side. On the Maryland side, the development has followed 270 out towards Frederick and Clarksburg. Potomac and Great Falls are very wealthy towns. A river crossing would be abused by commuters and create a mess on both sides where there's Potomac River parks set aside.

This is true but the reality is Route 28 in Virginia should've been connected to 28 in Maryland a long time ago. It seems like such a simple concept but alas all the people who want to play pretend farmer in Montgomery County's 'Agricultural Reserve' hold things up. Not saying there should be some 12 lane highway through the land but at least an expressway with 2 or 3 lanes in each direction. Do limited exits to and keep existing zoning as it is to prevent a big development rush.

[Folks3000]

Originally Posted by macalan

Can someone explain the NOVA traffic congestion issue?

It seems that Alexandria and Arlington are the largest cities in NOVA and not that large. The other towns/cities - Fairfax, Reston, Falls Church - all seem surprisingly small.

So what accounts for the massive traffic? I understand traffic in DC, but why in NOVA? Is it just during commute times with all the people traveling to DC for work? Or is it all the time?

Is it just on the major roads going into DC, or is it also in the seemingly smallish towns like Falls Church (14K) and Fairfax City (24K) just getting around the town/city itself doing grocery shopping/doctor/vet appts mid-day during the week?

I live in a burb of Charleston now - Charleston is about the size of Alexandria, and yeah it gets "congested" but nothing like Boston. Our burb is @ 90K people and the traffic here is a headache on weekends and rush hour - tons of accidents. Is that the kind of traffic we're talking about?

For anyone from MA is it like Rte 95 congestion/traffic around Waltham area or is it like Boston traffic - or worse?

We're considering relocation to NOVA. We don't have to commute- work from home, and if we went into DC would take the metro. But am trying to understand the level, cause, frequency and patterns of the congestion.

There are almost 10 million people in the Greater DC/Baltimore area (and only a tiny fraction of them live in the urban core jurisdictions of DC, Arlington, and Alexandria). It's the fourth largest population center in the United States. Fairfax County has over a million people all by itself. Once you get out of the urban core jurisdictions, there's relatively little useful transit, things are in a suburban format (outside of the TODs like Reston Town Center or the Mosaic District), and so people have to drive for everything. Hence the traffic.

[Folks3000]

Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82

This is true but the reality is Route 28 in Virginia should've been connected to 28 in Maryland a long time ago. It seems like such a simple concept but alas all the people who want to play pretend farmer in Montgomery County's 'Agricultural Reserve' hold things up. Not saying there should be some 12 lane highway through the land but at least an expressway with 2 or 3 lanes in each direction. Do limited exits to and keep existing zoning as it is to prevent a big development rush.

I still wish the Purple Line was heavy rail instead of half-*** light rail, and that they could have extended that from Bethesda to Tysons Corner and the Mosaic District. I bet it would have been quite a hit honestly.