Gifted Ed in PWC schools

[littlewmn]

THanks for your input KathyR. Is your son in PWC Claremarie?
Maybe they take it more seriously as a pullout when the FT Center is not an option?

[Bong477]

I grew up in PWC and did the gifted education program there. It wasn't entirely a waste of time, but it wasn't a life altering experience either. I can't imagine how putting "gifted" elementary (or evem middle school) students in a seperate school is a good idea. Its just too young.

I went to the magnet high school at Thomas Jefferson which was definately a unique experience. Not all of the uniqueness is positive... commuting to TJ from PWC was a trying experience 10 years ago, and I'm sure its worse now. Even though its labeled "science and technology" its a little bit of a misnomer. Its a pretty well rounded education in all subjects.

[SueB1]

Fairfax has gifted centers for children in grades 3 through 8. Children are place in Centers after testing and recommendations in 2nd grade.
[url=http://www.fcps.edu/DIS/gt/index.htm]Gifted and Talented Programs, Instructional Services Department[/url]

If you move to Fairfax county do not move into an IB school district. With one exception the IB schools are the lower performing schools.
[url]http://www.fairfaxcaps.org/newsletters/pdf/reportcard.pdf[/url]

I totally disagree on the progressive junk. Your son needs a REAL education, in real, not fuzzy math, real writing, not whole language, real history, with dates. Watch out for schools trying to dazzle you with computers, art and 'new techniques' that usually means they can't dazzle you with academics. Most parents of gifted learners care more about academics than art. Most of those parents don't fall for every new fad that comes down the educational pike.
GT centers don't need to teach to the test, their kids pass easily.

[SueB1]

Originally Posted by littlewmn

Thanks Claremarie! Agian, helpful points on the drills. I wish I could put him in a private school with a more creative approach, but can't afford that- unless private schools are much cheaper here since they are far more prevalent. I know that the kids at the top of the curve get ignored, which was why I was wanting a GT program where, theoretically, he will be in GT classes (in Fairfax, anyway). I guess my theory being that they only way he wont be ignored is if he is in a class with all GT kids.
Could you tell me why you consider this type of program a waste of time? I know that there is the chance he wont be approved for the program (I am thinking his odds are better when he starts out K in it), but if he is then Fairfax would have to scrap that part of the system for his needs not to be met and I gotta think tha a bunch of rich parents who are likely using the GT programs as a status symbol would be fighting to keep them. I am not happy about the elitism, but it seems much better to me than the boredom and drills.
thx

Why do you think that your child won't be ignored in a GT class? GT center classes are usually larger than classes at a base school. Since FCPS went with an affirmative action program for all GT centers, there isn't much chance of it being elitist. Every center has children who need remedial help and children at various levels in each classroom, just like every other classroom in the county.

What's wrong with drills to learn math facts? It sure beats the fuzzy math in the current books, "Everyday Math". If your son is at all interested in math, I strongly suggest that you avoid any school that uses that series. It's horrible, and that's the opinion of the best middle school math teacher in FC. Seriously. I'm just a mom of two gifted kids, with 20 years or so in the subject of GT education. But I trust the opinions of the best. He has NO use for this fuzzy math or any other unproven educational fad.

For a child as bright as yours, I would strongly recommend doing what many GT parents are now doing, home schooling. It's really the only way your child will have his needs met, to be educated and to continue a love of learning.

[littlewmn]

Thx Bong- thought it was truloy just advanced in technology areas- that had me very confused.
SueB1- I agree with you about homeschooling, but am not confident in my math and science skills for higher grade levels, nor am I organized and eficient enoughto do a regular school routine. He needs someone who can provide far more structure. He is also very social and wants to be with other kids every day (he is an only child). He thrives with hands-on learning and moving about the classroom, so that is why I am looking for "new techniques" He did especially well with Montessori. Alas, I can not afford private school at this time.
As for whi I hate drills- he likes to learn something and then move on. He gets very frustrated with repetition. I am concerned about the pacing and figure in any classroom where there are kids lagging behind he will get bored and start doing things like messing up his own work (he has done things like color over his worksheets while waiting). He does well with self-directed work, where he finishes one task and can choose another himself. True, he will learn not to do these things as he learns what to expect in a school envirnonment, but he is used to much freedom and exploration as his learning path- something that usually doesn't fit well with traditional techniques. So I am torn between unique approaches in non-trad schools (at the Elementary level only- I agree that Jr High and up should be the "real" stuff) and GT centers. I am concerned about how you were describing those centers though. Are they very crowded?
I tend to think some of the best ways to reinforce academics is with the "fun stuff"... with art and music. I believe in integrating foofy stuff into the academics. Guess I am one of those other parents, because music builds intelligence and pattern recognition ( I was a violinist until college) and creativity is too important to be shoved out the window for academics. So I am stuck trying to find something well-rounded. Hence the draw to the magnets.

[sundevil85]

Originally Posted by SueB1

Why do you think that your child won't be ignored in a GT class? GT center classes are usually larger than classes at a base school. Since FCPS went with an affirmative action program for all GT centers, there isn't much chance of it being elitist. Every center has children who need remedial help and children at various levels in each classroom, just like every other classroom in the county.

This is true. I read a scathing indictment of FCPS over the way they select students for TJ. It's worse than the Texas' Cheerleaders.

[sundevil85]

Originally Posted by SueB1

What's wrong with drills to learn math facts? It sure beats the fuzzy math in the current books, "Everyday Math". If your son is at all interested in math, I strongly suggest that you avoid any school that uses that series. It's horrible, and that's the opinion of the best middle school math teacher in FC. Seriously. I'm just a mom of two gifted kids, with 20 years or so in the subject of GT education. But I trust the opinions of the best. He has NO use for this fuzzy math or any other unproven educational fad.

A-men. I scored 670 on the Math SAT (28 years ago, when scores were lower), and a 730 on Numeric GRE. I never took an AP (or IB) class, and didn't take Calculus until my second year in college. The number one reason that I did so well on this test is my fourth grade teacher Mrs. Bloch.
Mrs. Bloch had us do a math fact worksheet, at least once a week, that required us to correctly answer 100 facts in less than five minutes. You had to know the facts backwards and forwards. Every math lesson after that just built on knowing the facts. Division, fractions, decimals, and Algebra. There have always been critics of standardized tests; usually from the NEA and under performing school districts. This "Math Investigations" (PWCS) is a tax-payer ripoff fraud--it was outlawed in California (among others).

I will also credit my decent writing abilities to Dr. S. John Davis (former Superintendent of FCPS). Dr. Davis had this idea that every FCPS student would have a "perfect paper" on file for him to see upon random inspection. A perfect paper was no easy task. If they tried doing that in PWCS, they would be crying "Racism." The perfect paper requirement is what enabled me to succeed at JMU. Freshmen English 101 is a difficult class there; the kids from Richmond and rural VA have a real tough time. The first day of class my professor, a Ph.D. from Duke announced that a misspelled word was an automatic "F" (before the day of spell check). The University thought that it was such a good idea, they promoted him to Head the English Department. Call it "tough love" if you like, but it works. Making paper dolls, and graduating kids that don't know math(s) and English, does not.


What's most sickening to me about the public schools is their tendency to glamorize under achievement. Everyone gets a trophy, no one is ever a loser, score will not be kept at ballgames, etc...Hey, winning and losing is the American way. Today's kids are fatter and dumber--make no mistake about it. The fat cats in the school district offices should take more of the blame than anyone. I would love to see a state law that caps school administrator pay; fewer would leave teaching for the higher paying jobs NOT working with students.

[5stones]

Having had 3 kids in 3 different states etc... I was very NON-math fact drills when my eldest stated them in 1st grade. (memorize...pressure etc...)
BUT..... she is now in 8th grade and has finished pre AP Algebra with a 94 avg. PA drilled the facts in the kids heads from 1-4th grade, by the time the were doing higher math...the facts just came to them, they don't have to think about it.
Math is a subject that builds on itself, getting those basic building blocks is key to understanding higher math.

now my youngest is in 2nd grade....no fact drills here in texas, she is struggling with mulitplication and division... she can't reacall her facts quickly so triple digit addition and subtraction are taking her a long time to complete....
We will be doing home drills this summer!!!