Why are most parents obsessed with "good" schools? (Arlington: real estate, apartments)
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2. AP courses were originally designed to help students take college credit in order to save money and time. Eventually those courses become "required" by many of the top colleges and universities in the country and no college credit is usually given. Using Virginia as an example, there are possibly, say, tens of thousands of students vying for a few thousand slots at the University of Virginia. In the meantime, one can get a solid education at George Mason. There are several schools "in between". Many students even start out at two-year community colleges and transfer to bigger schools. Going to Harvard or Yale may guarantee an excellent source of alumni contacts but it isn't necessary to be a success in one's chosen profession.
Exactly. Nor is it any indication of your success in life. But it seems that so many people (in this area especially) drive their kids to get into the Ivy League schools and drill it into them that getting into such schools is an indication that they've "made it". In the meantime, the kids are stressed out and working their butts off to please them - taking multiple AP classes and studying into the early hours of the morning, spending weekends volunteering in the community, practicing 3+ times a week on sports teams.
So much for being a kid.
Honestly, in an area where you already have above-average schools, I just don't understand the big push for kids to get into the "elites". A little perspective might be nice.
Exactly. Nor is it any indication of your success in life. But it seems that so many people (in this area especially) drive their kids to get into the Ivy League schools and drill it into them that getting into such schools is an indication that they've "made it". In the meantime, the kids are stressed out and working their butts off to please them - taking multiple AP classes and studying into the early hours of the morning, spending weekends volunteering in the community, practicing 3+ times a week on sports teams.
So much for being a kid.
Honestly, in an area where you already have above-average schools, I just don't understand the big push for kids to get into the "elites". A little perspective might be nice.
I agree with much of your post, but I think it's a bit of a straw-man argument to suggest that the pressure is directed toward getting kids into Ivy League schools. I don't have statistics in hand, but I think the vast majority of NoVa students gaining admission to Ivy League schools attend TJ, with far smaller numbers gaining admission from other schools in the county.
On the other hand, in recent years, NoVa kids have had to work very hard to gain admission to the better known state universities (and gaining admission to one of those state schools can save families many thousands in tuition fees compared to a private college). That's the goal for many area families - not HYP.
The dynamic in an affluent area such as NoVa may change if the number of college-age students starts to decline or economics limit the ability of an increasing number of families to afford many of the more expensive private colleges. It would be nice to turn the clock back to 1975 (who ever heard of an SAT prep course back then!), but it's just not going to happen soon.
In addition, much of the pressure in this area comes from recent immigrants, especially those from Asian countries, rather than the "homegrown" Ivy-League alum parents. Many Asian families deliberately moved to northern Virginia because of the schools, especially TJ but also the other highly-regarded regular high schools. Many of these families are not familiar with the excellent range of non-Ivy colleges in this country, and set their sights on the "name brands," putting tremendous pressure on their children to apply and be accepted at those schools.
I agree with much of your post, but I think it's a bit of a straw-man argument to suggest that the pressure is directed toward getting kids into Ivy League schools. I don't have statistics in hand, but I think the vast majority of NoVa students gaining admission to Ivy League schools attend TJ, with far smaller numbers gaining admission from other schools in the county.
On the other hand, in recent years, NoVa kids have had to work very hard to gain admission to the better known state universities (and gaining admission to one of those state schools can save families many thousands in tuition fees compared to a private college). That's the goal for many area families - not HYP.
The dynamic in an affluent area such as NoVa may change if the number of college-age students starts to decline or economics limit the ability of an increasing number of families to afford many of the more expensive private colleges. It would be nice to turn the clock back to 1975 (who ever heard of an SAT prep course back then!), but it's just not going to happen soon.
Point taken. Ivy's aside, the pressure to even get into a school like UVa or Virginia Tech seems ridiculous (in my humble opinion). I guess some of the blame for that falls on the schools themselves and the high admission standards.
I guess I have this somewhat "romantic" view that you don't have to get into a competitive school to do well and be happy in life. Heck, there are folks who have dropped out of high school who have gone on to be wildly successful. I just wish more parents were willing to sit down with their kids and say "Hey, it's ok that you're not taking AP classes, or captain of the lacrosse team, and it's not the end of the world if you don't get into Tech or GW or UVa."
As someone who has only just recently graduated high school (with honors may I add) and will soon be obtaining my Bachelor of Science Degree in Accounting (more than likely just *** laude, which is fine by me), I am appalled by how competitive and aggressive many of you parents are. My parents worked very tediously over the years to ensure that I had a wonderful future laid out ahead of me, but while they are "wealthy" by Scranton, PA's lackluster financial standards, they would be lower-middle-class by NoVA's much more stringent standards. They couldn't afford to send me to a parochial school, much less a private school, and I am one of those "gifted" students.
As such I attended our poorly-regarded public school system, and I truly did appreciate being challenged and encouraged by devoted faculty members---some of whom I still thank for their dedication when I bump into them in our community. It is all about attitude, parents, and the sooner you realize that perhaps it's NOT "everyone else's fault" that your little Suzie or Timmy is faltering but perhaps maybe his or her OWN lack of direction, the better your chances of rectifying this before it becomes decidedly more self-destructive in nature. At my "sub-par" alma mater those who applied themselves, listened attentively in classes, participated, did their homework, etc. are all very successful today (my new dream job is evidence of this). Those who chose to prioritize honing their athletic skills over the realm of academia, were too busy trying to dupe cheerleaders into giving them oral sex on the weekends while at under-age drinking parties to study, were more concerned with putting down we "nerds" to even give us a chance at friendship, etc. are now largely failures who will be living in our same decrepit town their entire lives working at unskilled jobs and having difficulty affording their kids without government support.
Life is all about choices. Stop making excuses for why your child isn't living up to his/her fullest potential. When I started feeling ostracized senior year shortly after "coming out" my grades began to slip as I considered suicide. If it weren't for my astute educators NOTICING this trend and cornering me (rather cleverly may I add) to see what was wrong, I may very well have thrown myself off the bridge that I had been eying up. Teachers are vastly under-appreciated PROFESSIONALS---just because they may not be able to afford to live on a sterile cul-de-sac and drive a gas-guzzling SUV like some of their pupils' parents doesn't make them worthy of such divisive criticism.
I soared from high school into the college of my choice, King's College, an AACSB-accredited institution, without a problem. Even though the political climate here on campus has been much too conservative for my tastes I realized that I was paying good money to learn, not to be patted on the back for driving a fuel-efficient vehicle adorned with an Obama bumper sticker. I feel blessed to have had the opportunity to attend college here, and I feel as if I'm just as capable of snagging a rewarding career opportunity as someone whose NoVA parents "forced" them to attend an Ivy-league institution with a much higher price tag just so they could tell their own colleagues "My kid's at Harvard/Yale/Princeton. Where's yours at?"
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. When you're six feet under pushing up daisies, how do you want to be remembered? Do you want to be someone who drove an SUV, lived on a cul-de-sac, ate at Applebee's, and watched American Idol every week like the rest of our materialistic society, or would you prefer to live frugally, devoting as much of your discretionary income as possible to charitable causes? I'm going to choose the latter. If I die with $1,000,000 in savings, then I'll be damned if that isn't going to go to help build a new childrens' cancer wing at a hospital instead of not even existing because I spent that shortly before death on a Maserati and McMansion that furthered our nation's obsession with conspicuous consumption.
As I prepare to move to NoVA I've made several observations. While I'm thrilled to see so many intelligent, thoughtful, considerate people, I'm ALSO disgusted by this uber-competitive "mine's bigger than yours" mentality. Who gives a damn if you live in the suburbs vs. the city, drive an Escalade or a Ford, sip Starbuck's or McDonald's lattes, eat at McCormick & Schmick's or Red Lobster, etc.? I truly don't. Some of you (not all, as I've said I've met some WONDERFUL people on this forum) need to re-examine your priorities. For me when 9/11 happened so close to home it snapped many here in Scranton into realizing that spending time with the ones you love is innumerably more important than "acquiring the most stuff."
How many of you have garages that are so packed with "stuff" that you can't park your vehicles inside of them?
I rest my case.
(END SOCIETAL RANT AGAINST MATERIALISM. INITIATE SHIELDS FROM RABID DISSENTERS!)
Last edited by SteelCityRising; 03-17-2009 at 01:46 PM..
Reason: You're "blocking" the word "___ Laude?" For Pete's sake if I was going to say the OTHER connotation I'd use the word "semen!"
Question for you Virginians along these lines (colleges/universities):
Is it truly very, very difficult to get into public colleges/universities in Virginia?
I'm contemplating a move from CA to VA (see my thread below) and it is honestly not that hard to get into the University of California. Berkeley, yes, is competitive, and UCLA is somewhat competitive, but there are 9 campuses in all, not to mention the California State University system (also good, not as good)--there are a dozen or more of those. UC reserves slots for the top 10% of graduating seniors. Until this year it was 10% from the entire state; it's now been changed to 10% of every high school, even the worst high schools (this change will hurt Asians).
And it's easy to transfer in from community colleges too (as long as you don't pick an extremely popular major, like biochemistry or engineering).
In your opinion, How does this CA admission process differ from the VA admission process?
I guess I have this somewhat "romantic" view that you don't have to get into a competitive school to do well and be happy in life. Heck, there are folks who have dropped out of high school who have gone on to be wildly successful. I just wish more parents were willing to sit down with their kids and say "Hey, it's ok that you're not taking AP classes, or captain of the lacrosse team, and it's not the end of the world if you don't get into Tech or GW or UVa."
You don't, I'm proof positive of that. I never graduated college. I attended one semester at NVCC and found that it was pretty much like highschool. I only attended because my parents pushed the "You have to get a college degree" speech on me. I found that college wasn't for me, I learn better hands on and visually, though I enjoy reading. I dropped out and found my first computer job. I got a few certifications under my belt and started doing the IT contracting. Now I've got 10yrs of experience in the field, and currently pursuing a gov't position that'll give me stability in these tumultuous times. My parents were surprised when I finally told them my salary. They couldn't believe I was making that much money without a college degree.
I'm currently 28 and have no college loans to my name. My bought new in 2004 SUV is paid for and my motorcycle is paid for. I own a house with my brother, well the bank owns it and we make payments. Now I'm currently waiting to close on my first investment property. Not bad for a guy who lived in a dirt floored shack in a 3rd world country for the early part of his life.
My parents graduated college in the Philippines and then sacrificed so much to get us to the US LEGALLY. They showed us that through hard work and determination you can succeed in this country. They both worked two jobs and were able to afford a home, raise 4 kids and send the oldest to college so she could get her degree. Now my parents have a retirement home in the Philippines where they spend the winters. They've worked very hard in their life and now enjoying the fruits of their labor.
My oldest brother makes also makes decent money without a college degree. He builds laser systems that marks precious stones.
So while I think a college diploma is a worthwhile endeavor, it's worthless if you don't have the gumption to do anything with it.
Although, the one flaw with your post is that the folks you speak of don't eat at Applebee's. Sheesh. Get with the times.
Let me just say that I hope I wasn't TOO offensive in my rant. I am very well aware that this phenomenon of putting "stuff" and "image" before those you love because you are merely misguided that those two aforementioned things will curry you favor with them is NOT unique to NoVA. It is a global problem. My parents could have bought me a BMW on my 16th birthday like many others in my suburb did, and they could have "forced" me to attend Harvard, assuming I would be fortunate enough to gain admittance. HOWEVER, I'd also respect them a lot less for trying to do these things for me, for the most part, to show off to others that how much money they spend on me is somehow equivalent to how much they care about me.
I know some upper-middle-class peers who do nothing but begrudge their parents for being so obsessive about "status." My one friend wants to obtain her Master's Degree in IST (or a related field) and is being pressured to go to law school instead so she can "have nice things like you do now in our house. She told me confidentially (through tears may I add) that she couldn't care less if she lived in a small apartment somewhere as long as she was happy and doing something she loved, material objects be damned. It was at that point that I seriously would have kissed her had I been straight (Awww...shucks!) A friendly hug ensued instead, and I let her know that I'd always be there for her to vent to, even if her parents didn't care to hear what she had to say. I empathized with her. While my parents and I have had a 95% wonderful relationship growing up, when I "came out" in high school they turned their backs on me with my father threatening to kill me and my mother crying incessantly. When we FINALLY talked again, their concerns were, disgustingly enough, how THEIR peers would perceive THEM as being "bad parents" for raising someone of an alternative sexual orientation (even though nearly NOBODY in my generation thought any less of me). Our story is repeated throughout our suburbs in my area, and I'd assume this social disconnect between parents and their teens is more magnified in NoVA due to the greater propensity to be competitive (at any cost!) Contrariwise I have some lower-middle-class (and even borderline impoverished) friends who have STRONG bonds with their parents---people who may not be able to bestow as many material objects upon their children but who STILL know how to actually LISTEN to their concerns and be supportive when necessary. I envy them. After that brou-ha-ha with my own parents regarding my sexuality they've destroyed the confidence I have in them being worthy of me confiding my feelings in them, and I haven't had any sort of in-depth conversations with them about my life since then. That's their loss, and hopefully other parents will learn from their mistake.
I'm just shaking my head in disbelief at society in general, not just NoVA in particular. My peers leave the classrooms on campus and IMMEDIATELY whip out their cell phones all at once, ignoring the friends trying to wave them down just feet away to ask how they're doing. Here in Scranton the real estate market is still red-hot, and trees are continuing to be felled left and right for ostentatious McMansions and luxury townhomes on hillsides above established blue-collar neighborhoods and mobile home parks so that "the peons" can have a good view of how the "chosen ones" can live.
Is it just me, or is society as an aggregate becoming DISTURBINGLY self-centered nowadays? Nobody cares if your kid goes to Harvard or George Mason. Nobody cares if you drive a Benz or a Hyundai. Nobody cares if you own a chihuahua that you took into your home as a stray or an AKC-certified Doberman Pinscher. Nobody cares if you live in a 1-bedroom apartment in the basement of an elderly couple's home in Herndon or a 5-bedroom McMansion on a neatly-groomed acre lot in Loudoun County. These are all "symbols" that insecure people use to project their images of "success" upon others because deep down inside most of the time these people aren't truly happy and are just dying to be complimented by someone to totally make their days worthwhile.
To me "success" isn't "I have lotsa stuff!!" To me "success" is being happy. If you are materialistic and are ALSO happy-go-lucky, then I commend you, as you are a RARE breed to be known and appreciated. Most people who are worldly are consistently working harder and harder just to put on a bigger and bigger act to impress people. That's no way to live.
Let me just say that I hope I wasn't TOO offensive in my rant. I am very well aware that this phenomenon of putting "stuff" and "image" before those you love because you are merely misguided that those two aforementioned things will curry you favor with them is NOT unique to NoVA. It is a global problem. My parents could have bought me a BMW on my 16th birthday like many others in my suburb did, and they could have "forced" me to attend Harvard, assuming I would be fortunate enough to gain admittance. HOWEVER, I'd also respect them a lot less for trying to do these things for me, for the most part, to show off to others that how much money they spend on me is somehow equivalent to how much they care about me.
I know some upper-middle-class peers who do nothing but begrudge their parents for being so obsessive about "status." My one friend wants to obtain her Master's Degree in IST (or a related field) and is being pressured to go to law school instead so she can "have nice things like you do now in our house. She told me confidentially (through tears may I add) that she couldn't care less if she lived in a small apartment somewhere as long as she was happy and doing something she loved, material objects be damned. It was at that point that I seriously would have kissed her had I been straight (Awww...shucks!) A friendly hug ensued instead, and I let her know that I'd always be there for her to vent to, even if her parents didn't care to hear what she had to say. I empathized with her. While my parents and I have had a 95% wonderful relationship growing up, when I "came out" in high school they turned their backs on me with my father threatening to kill me and my mother crying incessantly. When we FINALLY talked again, their concerns were, disgustingly enough, how THEIR peers would perceive THEM as being "bad parents" for raising someone of an alternative sexual orientation (even though nearly NOBODY in my generation thought any less of me). Our story is repeated throughout our suburbs in my area, and I'd assume this social disconnect between parents and their teens is more magnified in NoVA due to the greater propensity to be competitive (at any cost!) Contrariwise I have some lower-middle-class (and even borderline impoverished) friends who have STRONG bonds with their parents---people who may not be able to bestow as many material objects upon their children but who STILL know how to actually LISTEN to their concerns and be supportive when necessary. I envy them. After that brou-ha-ha with my own parents regarding my sexuality they've destroyed the confidence I have in them being worthy of me confiding my feelings in them, and I haven't had any sort of in-depth conversations with them about my life since then. That's their loss, and hopefully other parents will learn from their mistake.
I'm just shaking my head in disbelief at society in general, not just NoVA in particular. My peers leave the classrooms on campus and IMMEDIATELY whip out their cell phones all at once, ignoring the friends trying to wave them down just feet away to ask how they're doing. Here in Scranton the real estate market is still red-hot, and trees are continuing to be felled left and right for ostentatious McMansions and luxury townhomes on hillsides above established blue-collar neighborhoods and mobile home parks so that "the peons" can have a good view of how the "chosen ones" can live.
Is it just me, or is society as an aggregate becoming DISTURBINGLY self-centered nowadays? Nobody cares if your kid goes to Harvard or George Mason. Nobody cares if you drive a Benz or a Hyundai. Nobody cares if you own a chihuahua that you took into your home as a stray or an AKC-certified Doberman Pinscher. Nobody cares if you live in a 1-bedroom apartment in the basement of an elderly couple's home in Herndon or a 5-bedroom McMansion on a neatly-groomed acre lot in Loudoun County. These are all "symbols" that insecure people use to project their images of "success" upon others because deep down inside most of the time these people aren't truly happy and are just dying to be complimented by someone to totally make their days worthwhile.
To me "success" isn't "I have lotsa stuff!!" To me "success" is being happy. If you are materialistic and are ALSO happy-go-lucky, then I commend you, as you are a RARE breed to be known and appreciated. Most people who are worldly are consistently working harder and harder just to put on a bigger and bigger act to impress people. That's no way to live.
I will say this, you are a very fast typer (or do you use voice-recognition software)? What in the world will you make of us when you actually live here and have to deal with us on a daily basis!
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A friendly hug ensued instead, and I let her know that I'd always be there for her to vent to, even if her parents didn't care to hear what she had to say. I empathized with her. While my parents and I have had a 95% wonderful relationship growing up, when I "came out" in high school they turned their backs on me with my father threatening to kill me and my mother crying incessantly. When we FINALLY talked again, their concerns were, disgustingly enough, how THEIR peers would perceive THEM as being "bad parents" for raising someone of an alternative sexual orientation (even though nearly NOBODY in my generation thought any less of me). Our story is repeated throughout our suburbs in my area, and I'd assume this social disconnect between parents and their teens is more magnified in NoVA due to the greater propensity to be competitive (at any cost!) Contrariwise I have some lower-middle-class (and even borderline impoverished) friends who have STRONG bonds with their parents---people who may not be able to bestow as many material objects upon their children but who STILL know how to actually LISTEN to their concerns and be supportive when necessary. I envy them. After that brou-ha-ha with my own parents regarding my sexuality they've destroyed the confidence I have in them being worthy of me confiding my feelings in them, and I haven't had any sort of in-depth conversations with them about my life since then. That's their loss, and hopefully other parents will learn from their mistake.
Nobody cares if your kid goes to Harvard or George Mason. Nobody cares if you drive a Benz or a Hyundai. Nobody cares if you own a chihuahua that you took into your home as a stray or an AKC-certified Doberman Pinscher. Nobody cares if you live in a 1-bedroom apartment in the basement of an elderly couple's home in Herndon or a 5-bedroom McMansion on a neatly-groomed acre lot in Loudoun County. These are all "symbols" that insecure people use to project their images of "success" upon others because deep down inside most of the time these people aren't truly happy and are just dying to be complimented by someone to totally make their days worthwhile. 
