Why is foodie culture so lacking here?

[leighland]

Originally Posted by weezycom

For the posters who are complaining about the produce here contrasted to what they could get in the midwest, remember that produce from the west coast takes another 2 days to travel here and hit the shelves than it does in Chicago. That couple of days means it gets picked a little more too-early and suffers from the ride more, too. In the summer with local produce from farmers markets and home gardens, that complaint can be eliminated. However, if you're only shopping the big chains, their supply lines still run primarily to CA and FL growing areas even in the summertime and that means the same quality issues remain.

Then why is it that NYC's restaurants (the few I have been in) have an abundance of quantity, quality, innovation and lots and lots of cultures/artisan cuisine? But RI/MA/PA/DC Metro food is terrible/restaurants limited? Now I haven't gone to a Manhattan grocery store in ages, but your reasoning has holes in it. For instance, why do Avacados, grown in Eastern San Diego County, then picked and shipped to LA, then from LA are distributed all over the US, are great quality in Dominicks in Chicago but horrible quality in Safeway in Nova? Both are Safeway. Both originated from the same area and same truckway. Both are picked the same time and shipped with the same refrigeration process. So you really think its the "Two Days" that turn the avocado from good to crap? Its not. Even with 2 more days (and its more than 2 days as its shipped to East Coast Distribution then to various buyers), the stores here know that East Coasters will take crappier food. The East Coasters standards are much lower than the Midwestern/Western. Period.
But somehow H-Mart gets very good produce, regardless of a long truck/distribution trek, and even tho it is a chain store and its in DC Metro. And I'd bet H-Mart's buyers are on the same produce floors as Safeway/Kroger/Albertsons/etc. And they get good stuff.Thats why white people here shop at H-Mart, the Foreigners here won't accept crappy produce, they know quality produce.
BTW, Farmers Markets in SoCal are heavenly, Great for seasonal items in the Midwest. I haven't made it to a DC Metro Market. I just assume it hasn't much to offer compared to what I'm acclimated to (yes, I am a food snob).

[CAVA1990]

I've lived in NoVA for about 20 years and have often pondered this question. Let me preface by saying I'm a native Californian who lived in Berkeley during the beginning of the Alice Waters food revolution. There are a number of factors I've come up with to explain the phenonomenon in question here:

1. No European immigration after the 1700s (pre-colonial scotch irish cuisine just doesn't stack up to neapolitan).
2. Virginia was a dry state well after prohibition - no liquor, no better restaurants.
3. Racial segregation - until the late 60's whites didn't eat the only ethnic food available around here. In some parts of rural VA (south of the Rappahannock), restaurants shut down and white people ate-in rather than serve or dine with black patrons.
4. No crunchy liberal college towns.
5 Zoning laws that put restaurants and grocers long distances from residential neighborhoods.
6. A large population of government/military types with unadventurous palates. The "Mils" shop at the commissary, diverting money from private grocery businesses.
7. Bad dining demographics - a high proportion of families with kids, empty nesters and retirees relative to singles.

Virginia traditionally does not have a restaurant culture. It's gotten a little better, but I remember after moving here that when I'd drive around rural VA I'd nearly starve to death before finding a place to eat. I noticed when doing the same thing in New England, there was a place to eat in each little town about 10 miles apart.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

I've lived in NoVA for about 20 years and have often pondered this question. Let me preface by saying I'm a native Californian who lived in Berkeley during the beginning of the Alice Waters food revolution. There are a number of factors I've come up with to explain the phenonomenon in question here:

1. No European immigration after the 1700s (pre-colonial scotch irish cuisine just doesn't stack up to neapolitan).
2. Virginia was a dry state well after prohibition - no liquor, no better restaurants.
3. Racial segregation - until the late 60's whites didn't eat the only ethnic food available around here. In some parts of rural VA (south of the Rappahannock), restaurants shut down and white people ate-in rather than serve or dine with black patrons.
4. No crunchy liberal college towns.
5 Zoning laws that put restaurants and grocers long distances from residential neighborhoods.
6. A large population of government/military types with unadventurous palates. The "Mils" shop at the commissary, diverting money from private grocery businesses.
7. Bad dining demographics - a high proportion of families with kids, empty nesters and retirees relative to singles.

Virginia traditionally does not have a restaurant culture. It's gotten a little better, but I remember after moving here that when I'd drive around rural VA I'd nearly starve to death before finding a place to eat. I noticed when doing the same thing in New England, there was a place to eat in each little town about 10 miles apart.

I think this is a pretty spot-on assessment, except the residents of NoVa that predated the waves of post -WW II newcomers weren't heavily Scotch-Irish (who tended to be in Pennsylvania, WV and the Appalachian parts of Virginia and North Carolina, rather than the coastal areas).

And, if you're referring to "soul food" as the available ethnic food in #3, the fact is that there were and are plenty of Southern whites and blacks who were fabulous cooks and cooked that way - but did so in their homes and for church events far more often than in restaurants.

[normie]

Depending on how you look at it, Toronto is a coastal city. It's on Lake Ontario... if Cleveland can claim they're on the North Coast, then Toronto would be on Canada's South Coast.

[Alicia Bradley]

Originally Posted by normie

Depending on how you look at it, Toronto is a coastal city. It's on Lake Ontario... if Cleveland can claim they're on the North Coast, then Toronto would be on Canada's South Coast.

True, but someone said he didn't feel the need to visit Chicago (even though he was just about 70 miles away) because it wasn't a "coastal city."

So - if Toronto's a "coastal city," I guess that makes Chicago one, too. (Sault Ste. Marie, ON, is only about thirty miles from the far coast of Lake Michigan! )

(On another note, I've decided the painfully non-technical geographic term "Midwest" should be retired - regional labels like "Great Lakes," "Great Plains," etc. would communicate so much more, geographically, and wouldn't necessarily have the same weird connotations that are far more about some mythological place than any real one.)

[Stephen 81]

Originally Posted by Alicia Bradley

True, but someone said he didn't feel the need to visit Chicago (even though he was just about 70 miles away) because it wasn't a "coastal city."

So - if Toronto's a "coastal city," I guess that makes Chicago one, too. (Sault Ste. Marie, ON, is only about thirty miles from the far coast of Lake Michigan! )

(On another note, I've decided the painfully non-technical geographic term "Midwest" should be retired - regional labels like "Great Lakes," "Great Plains," etc. would communicate so much more, geographically, and wouldn't necessarily have the same weird connotations that are far more about some mythological place than any real one.)

That is not at all what "someone" said. I indicated that I had been to Chicago but didn't want to talk about it from a food perspective because my sole ethnic experience there ended with food poisoning. My comment that the ethnic dining scene in Chicago was abysmal ended with a , indicating that it was meant to be interpreted sarcastically.

I also said that Chicago was "not a vacation destination like a lot of the coastal cities are". If you truly think that international tourists are likelier to have visited Kansas City, Minneapolis and Chicago than NYC, San Francisco and DC, then more power to you. But I'm pretty sure that the coastal cities get more tourists. If that sounds parochial to you, I'm sorry.

You also decided that I was denigrating Toronto and Paris because they weren't coastal cities. My mistake, I thought we were discussing foodie culture in the United States, and that "coastal cities" would be understood to mean "American coastal cities". I guess by the Midwest you are also referring to the West Midlands in the UK.

The Midwest, especially Chicago, has a lot to offer tourists and residents. But like Virginia and the South, people from other parts of the country tend to denigrate it. And that has a tendency to make Midwesterners and Southerners unnecessarily touchy about any perceived slight (as I'm sure you've noticed about many of us on this board!).

[Blanca29]

I'm a huge foodie and health nut and lived in Europe, California, New England, Midwest and here. In my opinion, DC area has great restaurants and produce. Although the farmers markets are not like the one in Santa Monica and the restaurants are not as well known as the ones in New York, there is a lot to experience in DC food wise, especially ethnic cuisine. The only thing that I miss is raw milk. We shop at whole foods and it is a good place, but nothing beats the fresh produce or grass-fed meat from the farmers market, and we're lucky that we can get these until December here. The apples from PA are as good as the ones from New England and I had the best watermelons here, too. For salads, Sweet Greens beats any NY corner salad place. For great ethnic food you have to get to the suburbs, not DC proper.

[mikeyo321]

Originally Posted by Blanca29

I'm a huge foodie and health nut and lived in Europe, California, New England, Midwest and here. In my opinion, DC area has great restaurants and produce. Although the farmers markets are not like the one in Santa Monica and the restaurants are not as well known as the ones in New York, there is a lot to experience in DC food wise, especially ethnic cuisine. The only thing that I miss is raw milk. We shop at whole foods and it is a good place, but nothing beats the fresh produce or grass-fed meat from the farmers market, and we're lucky that we can get these until December here. The apples from PA are as good as the ones from New England and I had the best watermelons here, too. For salads, Sweet Greens beats any NY corner salad place. For great ethnic food you have to get to the suburbs, not DC proper.

Good post. There's certainly good food around D.C. if you stay here awhile and hunt it out and are open to different tastes. Is it amazing in every area? No. Could there be, for example, better pizza or more regional specialties? Definitely. However, many of us locals are white-collar workaday nerds and fashion, food, art and the like, while certainly important of us, are not as front and center as perhaps some other areas. Besides, as many posters have already mentioned, as more people with roots from other areas (for example, my parents and family are from the Northeast but I have grown up and remained here) start putting down roots here the "foodie" scene here will probably continue to evolve. Personally I think it's more a case that there aren't as many stores, restaurants, etc. that are DISTINCTIVELY good rather than not good at all. I'm generally satisfied with how I eat around here, though it could be a little cheaper.