TJ Admissions (Arlington, Jefferson, Herndon: sales, job market, middle schools)

[herndon71]

Originally Posted by Stephen 81

If parental pressures were truly irrelevant, you'd have a lot fewer Asian-American students. I am NOT implying that Asian-American parents are pushier. What I am saying is that 14 year olds are strongly influenced by their parents, whether you're talking about their food preferences, political beliefs, or free-time activities. If kids were truly allowed to pursue whatever path they wanted, ignoring all pressure from their parents, you wouldn't see massive racial disparities in various professions, because academic interests aren't rooted in biology (and certainly not in race).

Creating a strong positive influence on kids is the job of the parents and I guess you are saying that Asian-Americans do a better job at that? Well, that definitely is true as most of those immigrants who came here are here because of the educational qualifications and that is the kind of social context they have. But that has nothing to do with TJ at all. I know a parent who is asking her kid not to join TJ fearing the grind and yet another kid did not even apply because she liked to pursue liberal arts.

[novajs]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Gee you don't suppose that's because American companies have outsourced so many tech jobs to other countries because they can pay them so little? Why would a kid in his right mind nowadays want to try competing with that? Kids (at least the non-Asian ones) realize that the money is in business and law. An average real estate broker makes a heck of a lot more over a 10 year period than a top notch engineer. Also, I'm not hearing any hue and cry from American industry that they're facing a lack of math and science talent. The main thing they complain about is lack of good communications skills. I think our education system pretty well meets the needs of our economy.

What you said is very true of the reality of America. You see the society values soft skills like communications, "leadership", and diversity significantly more than hard skills like science, math, and engineering. Many people in top leadership and senior management have liberal arts degree; or even if they have engineering/science degrees, more often they are not good at the technical work and move to the business/management track at the earliest. Engineers will see their salaries max out at 120K in their life times, while lawyers, traders, realtors, sales, and CEOs can expect to earn much more than that. Thus our education system reponds well to this reality.

Moderator Cut

[herndon71]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Gee you don't suppose that's because American companies have outsourced so many tech jobs to other countries because they can pay them so little? Why would a kid in his right mind nowadays want to try competing with that? Kids (at least the non-Asian ones) realize that the money is in business and law. An average real estate broker makes a heck of a lot more over a 10 year period than a top notch engineer. Also, I'm not hearing any hue and cry from American industry that they're facing a lack of math and science talent. The main thing they complain about is lack of good communications skills. I think our education system pretty well meets the needs of our economy.

Both of them, Bill Gates and Craig Barrett are business leaders of repute and they are engineers/scientist. It might be worthy to note here that Bill Gates is the Chief Engineer of Microsoft. I won't add anything to what they already said in the following links:

craig-barrett-takes-on-vivek-wadhwa-in-the-tech-education-debate

Bill gates view of outsourcing

[Stephen 81]

Originally Posted by herndon71

Creating a strong positive influence on kids is the job of the parents and I guess you are saying that Asian-Americans do a better job at that?

If you think that a strong positive influence is pushing math and science education, then sure. I would define a strong positive influence differently, and allow kids to focus on the subjects that interest them the most, not the ones with the most status or that pay the best, assuming you are successful.

[herndon71]

Originally Posted by Stephen 81

If you think that a strong positive influence is pushing math and science education, then sure. I would define a strong positive influence differently, and allow kids to focus on the subjects that interest them the most, not the ones with the most status or that pay the best, assuming you are successful.

But according to an earlier post the science and maths are not the best paying subjects - the best pay is in the real-estate brokerage!

[herndon71]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

Gee you don't suppose that's because American companies have outsourced so many tech jobs to other countries because they can pay them so little? Why would a kid in his right mind nowadays want to try competing with that? Kids (at least the non-Asian ones) realize that the money is in business and law. An average real estate broker makes a heck of a lot more over a 10 year period than a top notch engineer. Also, I'm not hearing any hue and cry from American industry that they're facing a lack of math and science talent. The main thing they complain about is lack of good communications skills. I think our education system pretty well meets the needs of our economy.

Your similar post had been answered earlier quite well.
https://www.city-data.com/forum/14350126-post57.html

[OrangeFish]

Originally Posted by novajs

Engineers will see their salaries max out at 120K in their life times

Huh??? I know engineers that are above 120K ~now~ and they've been out of college/grad school for just five years. I doubt they have seen their last salary increase at the age of 28.

[novajs]

Originally Posted by OrangeFish

Huh??? I know engineers that are above 120K ~now~ and they've been out of college/grad school for just five years. I doubt they have seen their last salary increase at the age of 28.

I believe chemical engineers make the most out of all the engineering field. Their average starting salary is about 60K. You have to look at the average for the whole country, not just in the high cost area. I think civil engineers and mechanical engineers in Youngstown or Toledo would be lucky to make 120K in the peak of their career.

[OrangeFish]

Originally Posted by novajs

I believe chemical engineers make the most out of all the engineering field. Their average starting salary is about 60K. You have to look at the average for the whole country, not just in the high cost area. I think civil engineers and mechanical engineers in Youngstown or Toledo would be lucky to make 120K in the peak of their career.

BLS statistics

As a group, engineers earn some of the highest average starting salaries among those holding bachelor's degrees. Average starting salary offers for graduates of bachelor’s degree programs in engineering, according to a July 2009 survey by the National Association of Colleges and Employers, were as follows:

Petroleum $83,121 Chemical 64,902 Mining and Mineral 64,404 Computer 61,738 Nuclear 61,610 Electrical/electronics and communications 60,125 Mechanical 58,766 Industrial/manufacturing 58,358 Materials 57,349 Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical 56,311 Agricultural 54,352 Bioengineering and biomedical 54,158 Civil 52,048

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by herndon71

Both of them, Bill Gates and Craig Barrett are business leaders of repute and they are engineers/scientist. It might be worthy to note here that Bill Gates is the Chief Engineer of Microsoft. I won't add anything to what they already said in the following links:

craig-barrett-takes-on-vivek-wadhwa-in-the-tech-education-debate

Bill gates view of outsourcing

What did Bill Gates get his degree in?