Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I understand the benefits of most people moving from IL to NWI on paper, but I think in reality it's fairly small.
If you don't have a great job that is fairly exclusive to Chicago or absolutely must live in Chicagoland, for whatever reason, there are still cheaper, and IMO, better, places to live throughout the country than NWI/IL. Much of what makes Chicago special (the urban fabric) is lost in the suburbs either on the IL/IN side. Yes, you're going to save in property taxes and will likely find cheaper property, but that seems to be about the end of the benefits. The commute is still going to suck, and with some exceptions, the IL side just seems more prosperous and overall has a better QoL.
If you're not tied to the region, there are areas of the country that are more scenic, better weather, have similar or better economies, more responsible government, lower taxes, etc., than IL or even IN.
Yeah it will really take businesses moving from Illinois (or elsewhere) to NWI for it to really make sense for a lot of people. Or maybe high speed rail
I used to finance Marty at Hoist LiftTruck. Always trying to negotiate a better rate, even when he was struggling. Most of his stuff (RE) is still in Bedford Park and he still lives in Burr Ridge. It was just cheaper to move to Indiana and the tax abatements helped too.
I did not mean to hammer you on international banking but there is a lot of misinformation out there. Everybody thought Britain was not going to exit and now they are freaking out. Expect a return to normalcy next week as the market looks to stabilize though Britain And the Euro zone will look to struggle so long as there in continued uncertainty.
Good news is interest rates will remain low with continued uncertainty over the Brexit.
I understand the benefits of most people moving from IL to NWI on paper, but I think in reality it's fairly small.
If you don't have a great job that is fairly exclusive to Chicago or absolutely must live in Chicagoland, for whatever reason, there are still cheaper, and IMO, better, places to live throughout the country than NWI/IL. Much of what makes Chicago special (the urban fabric) is lost in the suburbs either on the IL/IN side. Yes, you're going to save in property taxes and will likely find cheaper property, but that seems to be about the end of the benefits. The commute is still going to suck, and with some exceptions, the IL side just seems more prosperous and overall has a better QoL.
If you're not tied to the region, there are areas of the country that are more scenic, better weather, have similar or better economies, more responsible government, lower taxes, etc., than IL or even IN.
I'm not sure what your litmus test is for cost savings but I felt the value proposition for Munster in NWI was pretty strong. This conclusion was only made after actually cross-shopping numerous IL bubs against Munster. Based on the homes we were looking at in IL burbs (like Elmhurst, Wilmette, Evanston, among others) we determined it would be at least a $200K additional swing to get something acceptable living-wise in IL. These "acceptable homes" would also be smaller and much older than what we could get for $200K less in Munster. These homes would be also much harder to update (hello asbestos) and could likely have structural/major system issues sooner.
So, that's $200K off the bat. Plus finance that extra amount (I don't have an extra $200K laying around) and that was an additional $140K over the term of a typical 30-year loan. Next, look at the tax differential. So assuming 2% tax in IL (which will likely increase) vs. something more like 1.4% in Munster and on that $200,000 in extra assessed value that is something like around $8K annually, so over the course of 30 years that is around another $230K. Basically it ended up being well over a half-million.
I know this is not a perfect analysis, I can only tell you that when we looked at it, it seemed compelling enough for us.
I agree, what makes Chicago special is lost by in large in the burbs so that whole QoL in IL bubs vs NWI argument is just somewhat diluted for me. I really don't care that a Nordstrom Dept store isn't down the street. I can buy a bunch of stuff from Nordstrom online, try it on and then send the rest of the stuff back for free. Brick-n-mortar retail is being disrupted by online. For others, this may be a deal breaker. To each his own. I just think you can't say there isn't a value proposition in NWI and the potential for some additional upside in NWI as IL taxes continue to increase. That being said, I am rooting for Chicago to turn it around!
Well, for what it is worth I live in Munster and I know numerous families that moved from IL to IN that are mid- to upper-class (and making over $200K). However, I've only been here for about 2 years so sample size of the folks that I have met is clearly much smaller than what is going on in "The Region" in general. Moreover, that would be skewed based on my specific location.
Humboldt1 - not sure why you keep coming on NWI board to say the schools in NWI are inferior across the board. We already had this discussion very recently and Munster's schools are very highly rated nationally (link below). There are many good IL suburban schools that rank lower than Munster nationally (post #19). As I stated before I think you are splitting hairs with schools of this caliber.
The other thing, making something like $250K in Hinsdale is not going to be a financial cakewalk if you have several kids that you wish to send to college. That's $800 - $900K for a home plus higher IL taxes every year. If you don't have family $$ or a good chuck of savings already, you may have to make choices between fully funding your 401K or fully funding your kids 529 College Savings Plan. The costs of college have skyrocketed and with the demographic shifts occurring (middle class hollowing out) it is becoming alarmingly clear how important college, the right college and the right major/specific degree will be for your kids in the future. I think it is easier to save for both in NWI.
The numbers do not support your first paragraph. You may know a few folks personally that fit the bill but the numbers say that Munster is very much middle class relative to the Chicagoland area. Median household income in Munster, IN is on par with Brookfield, IL. I don't think anyone would consider Brookfield mid- to upper-class.
Not following your last paragraph either. I live in a modest 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom home in Hinsdale with children on a household income of $170k. We are already saving for college and retirement at a decent rate but if we were making $250k we would be maxing out both 401k's and Roth IRA's and still have a significant amount of disposable income to spare. Of course, it all depends on the amount of debt one has incurred. In our case, our only debt besides our mortgage payment is a $200/month car payment.
I agree with a lot of what you say but maybe lower COL allows one to be upper middle class on lower income in NWI vs Brookfield, which is solidly middle class area.
For the Roth it phases out at 193k household income. Be glad you can still contribute because at 250k you would not be able to though it might afford you opportunity to more easily max out 401k and save more.
I agree with a lot of what you say but maybe lower COL allows one to be upper middle class on lower income in NWI vs Brookfield, which is solidly middle class area.
For the Roth it phases out at 193k household income. Be glad you can still contribute because at 250k you would not be able to though it might afford you opportunity to more easily max out 401k and save more.
I agree. One might be able to make an argument that it is bordering on upper middle class but certainly no higher.
Didn't know about the phase out regarding the Roth! That's a bummer. Probably should start maxing it out while I can.
Making over $200K will not deter you from choosing NWI
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Kind Of Town
The numbers do not support your first paragraph. You may know a few folks personally that fit the bill but the numbers say that Munster is very much middle class relative to the Chicagoland area. Median household income in Munster, IN is on par with Brookfield, IL. I don't think anyone would consider Brookfield mid- to upper-class.
Not following your last paragraph either. I live in a modest 3 bedroom, 2 bathroom home in Hinsdale with children on a household income of $170k. We are already saving for college and retirement at a decent rate but if we were making $250k we would be maxing out both 401k's and Roth IRA's and still have a significant amount of disposable income to spare. Of course, it all depends on the amount of debt one has incurred. In our case, our only debt besides our mortgage payment is a $200/month car payment.
I never said that Munster was upper class and I never said that most people moving to Munster were upper class. I was refuting the statement that someone making over $200K would not choose Munster vs a good IL suburb. I concur with you, Munster is not uniformly highly affluent. I am just saying that some affluent people choose it as evidenced by my personal experience here. (Again, I will reiterate that the people I meet are influenced specifically by where I live.) The majority of which one or both family members work in IL.
With regards to Hinsdale, the average house costs in the mid-$800K range, right? So assuming you want an average house, your math on how much you can push to retirement/college savings after your mortgage payments will change. I like your approach of buying a more modest home in good IL suburb as it leaves more flexibility financially wise. If we didn't cross the border to NWI, we would have taken the same approach.
I never said that Munster was upper class and I never said that most people moving to Munster were upper class. I was refuting the statement that someone making over $200K would not choose Munster vs a good IL suburb. I concur with you, Munster is not uniformly highly affluent. I am just saying that some affluent people choose it as evidenced by my personal experience here. (Again, I will reiterate that the people I meet are influenced specifically by where I live.) The majority of which one or both family members work in IL.
With regards to Hinsdale, the average house costs in the mid-$800K range, right? So assuming you want an average house, your math on how much you can push to retirement/college savings after your mortgage payments will change. I like your approach of buying a more modest home in good IL suburb as it leaves more flexibility financially wise. If we didn't cross the border to NWI, we would have taken the same approach.
Thanks for clarifying but the original post seemed to imply that Munster was moving towards or in the process of becoming mid- to upper-class based on your personal experience. I am just pointing out that your personal experience is not supported by the data. I'm sure there are folks in towns like Brookfield, Westchester, Westmont, etc. that are also pulling in >$200k household income but that doesn't mean they are moving towards becoming mid- to upper-class towns or that those exceeding this level of income would strongly consider these towns while relocating.
Regarding Hinsdale, yes, the median home value is ~$840k but there are still very nice homes available below this amount. It won't be brand new and it likely will not exceed 2500SF but that doesn't mean it is unsuitable for raising a family. I understand your greater point but I think many prospective buyers automatically rule out Hinsdale because they think they need a household income of >$200k to get in.
Thanks for clarifying but the original post seemed to imply that Munster was moving towards or in the process of becoming mid- to upper-class based on your personal experience. I am just pointing out that your personal experience is not supported by the data. I'm sure there are folks in towns like Brookfield, Westchester, Westmont, etc. that are also pulling in >$200k household income but that doesn't mean they are moving towards becoming mid- to upper-class towns or that those exceeding this level of income would strongly consider these towns while relocating.
Well the current data as it is doesn't really mean much. This question could be easily answered by comparing the income data from the last few censuses. If the income, adjusted for inflation, has risen then objectively speaking yes Munster is becoming more affluent. If it didn't go up then no, it's not. I would look it up myself but I'm on my phone right now and it's a little inconvenient.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Response to McDonald
