Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Follow my logic here for a moment uncle. I lived part of my small kid time in the Kakaako community, i also born and raised majority of my childhood time on oahu. Now i remember when we had good rain in the 1970s that the streets would flood in the neighborhood, i also remember seeing all the stray cats huddled together on highground when flooding happened. Now im asking you this, that was almost 40 years ago. For my education uncle because i might be missing something. Waikiki, Honolulu, Kakaako, Ala Moana has had almost 40 years of redevelopments prob totaling in trillions with new skyrises, condos and resorts. So uncle if your theory about the rich is correct uncle and the money raised thru taxes from the rich goes to help the infrastructure? Then why flooding even worse now? I mean i don't ever recall police closing streets in the 70s because pressure from flooding is so bad that manhole covers are poping up and gutting citizens cars passing by. Am i missing something? Honest uncle no stink inten
No worries!!
I witnessed up close (20 feet away) 30+ cars get picked up like tinker toys and smashed into fire hydrants, light poles, retaining walls and peoples' homes in the great New Year's Flood in 1987. I even recorded a portion of the spectacle on video and CNN played the video on national tv. Over 70 of us were evacuated by the fire department and had to trudge are way through heavy trees and brush just to avoid the wall of mud, water and rocks that completely engulfed the street, sidewalk and front yards of homes. You couldn't sleep... boulders the size of compact cars rolled down the street rolling over cars piled on each other like matchsticks and breaking up the asphalt and concrete with every new boulder that rolled by. The house we were evacuated to (we had no other place to go as all around us there were rivers of water) would shake like we had a constant 5.0 quake for hours... glass would crackle, wood wood creak... everyone thought we would be wiped out by the ever-widening rivers of mud and water around us; women and children were in tears when the clock struck midnight. Firemen stayed with us through the night. By daybreak it looked like Armageddon... cars completely obliterated (looked like the cars you see after an F4 tornado took it for a wild ride). Homes had cars smashed through living rooms. My PE teacher had boulders and mud 5 feet high in his kitchen. The entire road was carved out like a canyon 20-30 feet deep for over a 1/4 mile due to the massive boulders that broke up the pavement allowing water to completely gut the man-made infrastructure. Even the water and sewer lines were wiped out. I will never forget that night. On several other occasions I had to walk home in knee high water from Niu Valley Intermediate as the buses that waited to take us home were completely flooded by rising water. When I was 18 I rescued a drainage ditch bodyboarder (yes we did dumb things when we were kids) by throwing a rope down from the Hahaione Road overpass and pulling him out of the water that turned into a rushing river after a freak out-of-the-blue downpour.
So obviously from my personal experiences, I cannot agree with you that infrastructure pertaining to storm drainage is worse today than yesterday. But this is of course purely anecdotal. My personal opinion is that it is impossible to have infrastructure that will prevent catastrophes. Every so many years, you will have a weather event that the infrastructure simply cannot handle. And that is by far not the government's fault. You simply cannot plan for 12" of rain in 3 hours. There is going to be some major damage and or injuries/death when these events occur and they inevitably will occur. No storm infrastructure nation-wide can handle that amount of water in such a short span. Infrastructure is such that it should prevent damage to homes, businesses, etc during the majority of weather events. The rest is handled by civil defense, safety officials, insurance and a little common sense.
Also, it should be noted that the addition of high rises does not add even one single gallon of storm drain outflow. An acre of land will receive the exact same amount of rain if it had a 400 ft tower on it or was just a blank bed of concrete. The city does have requirements for min percentage requirements of weather-permeable surfaces so the property can contain most of the volume of rain. However, during a torrential downpour (especially one that hits when the ground is already saturated), 100% of the water that falls from the sky will turn into storm drain outflow and this will inevitably overburden our system. But this doesn't matter if there is a high rise there or not. Makes zero difference. In fact, where the Waiea is being built, they will have magnitudes more weather permeable surface available simply because they are building over what was for many years a 100% paved parking lot. Green space and weather permeable surface will occupy a larger portion of area than what is there currently, thus these new condo projects actually REDUCE the load on our infrastructure (at least pertaining to storm drain outflow).
Oahu split over plans for Kakaako - 50% of Oahu residents believe development is growing too fast. @staradgomes...............
The Hawaii Poll conducted by Ward Research Inc. for the Hono lulu Star-Advertiser and Hawaii News Now shows that 54 percent of Oahu residents think too much development is planned for Kaka ako and that it's happening too quickly.
The Hawaii Community Development Authority was set up in 1976 to carry out the vision and has spent more than $200 million upgrading sewer systems, roads and other infrastructure to encourage private landowners to create a dense urban neighborhood. (In more then 3 decades vs trillions in accual developments in new skyscrapers, resorts, business and malls in waikiki, kakaako, ala moana areas)
See more then just a few complainers. As i said before issues in Hawai'i often come down to class.
I actually think 54% is way too low. I'd say a much higher percentage of local people oppose the new development projects in Kakaako. The fancier and pricier and more over the top these projects are, the more locals are against it. Most people are ignorant to the benefits these wealthy individuals provide locals. They tend to gravitate to ideologies that protect the specific class they are in and will not have an open mind regardless of how the facts are presented. It's not really a local "Hawaii" thing... it's just the nature of humans in all cities facing the same rampant development. Humans are wired to protect "their kind". There is nothing wrong with that at all... in fact, if you didn't think that way something is likely twisted in your head. I "feel" the exact same way the locals do, HOWEVER, as a fiscal conservative, I see that the poor and middle class need all the help that they can get and the only way they will get that help is to bring the wealthy here to help prop up our tax base so services can be rendered in the long term.
I do believe rampant (not reckless) development is critical because these windows of opportunity are generally very short-lived. Real estate market upturns don't last forever and that's when you see the largest influx of projects that permanently establish a new (very lucrative to locals) tax base. In this case, we have all the stars and moons aligned. Large land owners have collaborated, government officials and neighborhood boards are green-lighting projects, the local economy is relatively stable, financiers and banks have stepped up to the plate, interest rates are low, material costs in check, contractors are gearing up and locals (and non-locals) are willing and able to snap up these homes. These windows don't last long so moving aggressively is critical in bringing these projects to fruition.
I was just reflecting on Ana comming. Im often criticized for not having alot of first hand experience. But this is one experience i do have with Hurricane Fico in 78 and Tropical Storm Gwen in 76. I just recall sitting in my skyscraper apartment in Kaka`ako with minor hurricane type wind blowing and feeling the building sway back and forth. Now this was a small skyscraper. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be on one of the top floors of the proposed 700ft skyscrapers for kaka`ako(taller then diamond head) during a hurricane . Rollercoster maybe?
Buildings swaying is part of being in a high-rise but, speaking from experience, being in a newer building feels more solid. I worked in an iconic tall and thin skyscraper in NYC 50+ stories and my office was near the top floor with much lower buildings surrounding. Even regular high winds would make the building would sway (and make my stomach turn).
We've had several storm-icanes in NYC, which has great local infrastructure and resources but, it got really bad. I don't think one can really fully guard against nature.
Buildings swaying is part of being in a high-rise but, speaking from experience, being in a newer building feels more solid. I worked in an iconic tall and thin skyscraper in NYC 50+ stories and my office was near the top floor with much lower buildings surrounding. Even regular high winds would make the building would sway (and make my stomach turn).
We've had several storm-icanes in NYC, which has great local infrastructure and resources but, it got really bad. I don't think one can really fully guard against nature.
Yeah I used to work on the 54th floor of an office bulding (not in Hawaii) and just small wind storms really got it going. It was also an older building and it made a hell of a creaking racket during windy days, I remember sitting at my desk with my right arm next to the window and feeling rain dripping in on a particularly wet day, the building sprung a leak. That's a bit disconcerting when your right arm looks like it's hanging out over nothing 54 stories up.
Yep. We don't have any buildings above 50 stories.
Yet... Not that I have an issue with it, I actually like the idea of tall housing developments for practicality reasons. I remember watching a documentary on luxury penthouses, one in NYC was on the 90th floor. I can't imagine an acrophobic setting foot in that place. My "office" in Honolulu is on the 12th floor, aka my home office.
Me too. I think Hong Kong, Chicago, and NYC are good examples of how you can do stunning high rises.
Can you imagine how cool that would be to live on the 90th floor in Waikiki. It would be breathtaking.
@thatguy950 too. Guys maybe i just have a learning disability or something? But if chicargo, ny and hong kong have stunning high rises and you want to see that and experience it then why Hawai'i???
Hawai'i is known for other stunning things that are unique. I believe once you start purposing building skyscrapers higher then diamond head i believe you have at that point kinda taken for grantted the nature of the islands.
Maybe a year in greenbay or detroit would help? Idk
@thatguy950 too. Guys maybe i just have a learning disability or something? But if chicargo, ny and hong kong have stunning high rises and you want to see that and experience it then why Hawai'i???
I'm stuck here and it Hawaii has better weather. And Hong Kong, Chicagoan, NYC, knows how to do high rises. Very cool and spectacular
Why not build a cool 90 story building, or a bunch. Think of the tax revenue and decrease in traffic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
