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Oh i agree Jonah K. Even thou i think pearlridge is so cool with the tram going from one building to another and how it really a local focused mall, i can't disagree that Ala Moana is very opened air compared to the other malls. I believe mine and alot of peoples concern is if the infrastructures of ala moana or Kakaako can handle an aggressive redevelopment of the areas?
Rampant, high density development is unfortunately a necessary evil... believe it or not, it keeps the cost down for all the other people on the island. Developers pay high fees to the city and state for permits, BoW connections, environmental (wastewater) connections, traffic development requirements and park dedication fees. The park fee alone for a SINGLE 2bdrm unit can net $25K for the city. Then consider the infrastructure costs (per capita) to support a high rise are much, much lower for the city. They can effectively have 1,000 residents in the same footprint as 10 single family homes... therefore the amount (i.e. underground run) of sewer lines, water lines, storm drainage, other underground infrastructure, etc costs a small fraction of the same infrastructure needed to support homes in a small subdivision.
People (almost ALL locals) complain that the homes are too expensive in town... that they are only being built for the rich. I disagree 100% with these people. They need to focus high cost per square foot homes in the urban core because this drives the cost of maintaining infrastructure down for everyone else. While the following is not politically correct or acceptable, generalizations about rich people are generally accurate... they are real statistics and the city and state understand them (though won't talk about it publicly because people can't handle the truth). Rich people have small families, thus they require less resources like water, sewer, etc per unit and put a lower strain on infrastructure. Rich people that do have children don't burden the public school system with their kids because they all attend private schools. Rich people don't use public resources for children as much (e.g. public swimming pools, recreation centers, etc). Rich people pay substantially more in state income tax and GET. Rich people pay inordinately high real property taxes per capita. Some only occupy their luxury residences 3-6 months of the year, putting even less strain on our infrastructure and resources simply because they are not living there full time.
Think about this... one single luxury high rise condo in Kakaako on one acre of land can net the exact same revenue in real property taxes as ALL OF MAKAKILO. Yes, just one condo sitting on the same parcel of land as 7 or 8 single family homes will net as much real property tax revenue as the entire 3,800 home community of Makakilo. Guess which one is much more expensive to maintain and serve with needed infrastructure? Rich people also pay inordinately high maintenance fees for buildings which in turn help drive our local economy (with the notable exception of electricity paid to HECO which is exported to countries selling us oil).
So in short, the "rampant" luxury development in town is unfortunately a necessary evil. Personally, the MORE luxurious and dense the project is, the better it is for our people. Ridiculous, over the top buildings are very welcome here. The way our government spends money, it needs all the rich people they can get. And yes, I am understand the negative impacts the rich have on our aina (and there are many). I am only focusing on the specific development in the urban core as you specifically cited infrastructure concerns. I'm not talking about the entire island as a whole.
Now PJ i don't believe anyone isn't suggesting no development, i believe that you might agree with me on this? No matter what the cost or money collectted by building hi-rises it doesn't seem to make a difference on the outdated sewer and draining system we have in areas like Ala Moana and Kakaako districts. I will trust you pj737 because you are local if you say its not an issue but my understanding is when you guys get a decent rain in these areas the streets flood to the point where manhole covers are comming off and now there seems to be a constent smell of sewer now. Despite what the population make up is, this tells me that the infrastructure can't really handle anymore growth without upgrades in the sewer and drainage systems of these areas. Am i correct?
Also lol, if it was limited to just a few areas of an island i doubt anyone would have any complaints persa. Could we be fortunate that the Gentrification would only be one island or a few communities? As the line in the sand is always being
Last edited by hawaiian by heart; 10-13-2014 at 08:00 PM..
Now PJ i don't believe anyone isn't suggesting no development, i believe that you might agree with me on this? No matter what the cost or money collectted by building hi-rises it doesn't seem to make a difference on the outdated sewer and draining system we have in areas like Ala Moana and Kakaako districts. I will trust you pj737 because you are local if you say its not an issue but my understanding is when you guys get a decent rain in these areas the streets flood to the point where manhole covers are comming off and now there seems to be a constent smell of sewer now. Despite what the population make up is, this tells me that the infrastructure can't really handle anymore growth without upgrades in the sewer and drainage systems of these areas. Am i correct?
Also lol, if it was limited to just a few areas of an island i doubt anyone would have any complaints persa. Could we be fortunate that the Gentrification would only be one island or a few communities? As the line in the sand is always being
I agree with you that infrastructure in Kakaako isn't currently sufficient to support the 50,000 new residents that plan to move in over the next several years. However, this infrastructure will be vastly improved with the initial collection of fees and taxes paid for by the developers. But not only will the infrastructure be improved, the inflow of cash (which lasts as long as the new building is standing) created by the obscenely high real property taxes collected and the disproportionately high wastewater and water fees (per capita) will not only support the condos that are being built, but infrastructure for the island as a whole. In other words, all these luxury projects are supporting Honolulu's middle class ISLAND WIDE. Rich people are HEAVILY subsidizing virtually every non-rich person in this state from water use to wastewater use to public facilities, roads, schools, public safety, etc etc. They literally make it possible for average Joe's to survive in this state. If the rich left, life would be absolutely miserable here.
Yet there is so much hatred from locals towards these obscenely wealthy people. As a local, born and raised, I can tell you 99% of locals are completely ignorant to the benefits of having these ultra luxury projects in our state. They somehow feel their way of life is threatened by these projects even if they don't even live in the immediate area. It's completely nonsensical. I mean seriously... why would anyone be upset at the fact that Waiea is trying to sell a penthouse for $100 million. I applaud that! Ask $200M for it!! The more the better! That's $100,000 in property taxes EVERY MONTH that serve all of us. Out of that $100,000 every month the owners benefit maybe 1% of it... the other 99% goes to you, me and the complainers. How ignorant is that?? These rich are not taking over the entire island... they generally like to live among each other so they will focus on small pockets throughout the island. There will always be places that locals can afford. The penthouse selling for $100M will have zero impact on the 3 bdrm 2 bath home in Makakilo. Building these ridiculously expensive projects is exactly what the locals need to support if they have any sense of responsible planning for the future. But unfortunately locals don't. They see about as far as their noses and that's about it. These rich people are not ruining our culture, they are simply making it possible for the rest of us to enjoy paradise without being taxed to death more than we already are.
These rich people are not ruining our culture, they are simply making it possible for the rest of us to enjoy paradise without being taxed to death more than we already are.
I like the realistic comment. While not a popular position, wealthy residents subsidize less wealthy residents. If you didn't have wealthy residents, you'd likely have a higher cost of living that people cannot afford.
Follow my logic here for a moment uncle. I lived part of my small kid time in the Kakaako community, i also born and raised majority of my childhood time on oahu. Now i remember when we had good rain in the 1970s that the streets would flood in the neighborhood, i also remember seeing all the stray cats huddled together on highground when flooding happened. Now im asking you this, that was almost 40 years ago. For my education uncle because i might be missing something. Waikiki, Honolulu, Kakaako, Ala Moana has had almost 40 years of redevelopments prob totaling in trillions with new skyrises, condos and resorts. So uncle if your theory about the rich is correct uncle and the money raised thru taxes from the rich goes to help the infrastructure? Then why flooding even worse now? I mean i don't ever recall police closing streets in the 70s because pressure from flooding is so bad that manhole covers are poping up and gutting citizens cars passing by. Am i missing something? Honest uncle no stink inten
I like the realistic comment. While not a popular position, wealthy residents subsidize less wealthy residents. If you didn't have wealthy residents, you'd likely have a higher cost of living that people cannot afford.
Hmmm interesting logic and topic, maybe start a thread about it? Maybe title being "Wealthy Hawaii Residents Subsidize less wealthy residents in Hawai'i is this true?" And see what would be said.
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