Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If the vacation rentals are owned by local folks, then (as far as the money filtering into the local economy goes) it should be okay. Unless of course, the local person collecting the rents spends it all on off island stuff, then the money is just going off island anyway.
If a tourist stays in a hotel, where does the money go? The majority of it goes directly to some off island corporation leaving behind a small portion in taxes and a few not even subsistence jobs. If a tourist stays in a vacation rental owned by a local person, then the local person gets the money. If they were paying the taxes on it, then it would be better than a hotel - from a standpoint of the money getting into the local economy. Although, frequently a vacation rental annoys the neighbors, so there should be a portion of the rent going to the direct neighbors for their annoyance, IMHO.
A vacation rental needs to be cleaned so there's jobs provided there, one expects the cleaners are small operations paying taxes. The renters will hopefully be going to the luaus and other excursions, although the tour operators may need to figure out a different way to advertise to the vacation rentals since they don't have the hotel concierge options. Perhaps folks providing services to tourists could get a list of vacation rentals and provide pamphlets to be given to the tourists.
IMHO, a vacation rental owned by a mainland person is about the same as the hotels, as far as taking money from Hawaii goes. Hotels provide jobs, but I've not really looked at the numbers on those jobs. Do they provide a wage folks can live on? With benefits? If so, then hotels are better than vacation rentals for the working folks.
Here on Hawaii Island, I have been seeing a LOT of new real estate listings where they mention it's been a successful vacation rental, although they don't mention the possible new laws in the real estate listing. Is the new law for Oahu only, or is it statewide? I've not read the details.
A $1,450,000 propert in Lanikai is not going to gross $54,000 a month..
.To deter Airbnb,erS one HOA in vegas is prohibiting use of building name n property images unless you have permission. They are going the copyright rule.
The goal i Presume is to get units under HOA control.
So instead of advertising Golden Weasel Hotel casino you have to say unit in a building .
PS....Im not in favor of illegal STRs. One operator tarred n feather would stop all illegal activity in a ny minute.
Sorry, your example is going "the other way". Didn't realize it. Take your $18,000 and divide by 3. That's a very rough estimate of what the rental property would go for monthly. If it's a highly desirable property such as near beach front, etc, you probably need to divide by 4. TVU makes 3-4X, which is why they're adamant about not enforcing the law. Also not sure if you looked on airbnb and other sites, but they add on for cleaning fees, so that is actually paid by the occupant.
You are correct in that a few public examples is all that's needed to keep the majority in check.
If the vacation rentals are owned by local folks, then (as far as the money filtering into the local economy goes) it should be okay. Unless of course, the local person collecting the rents spends it all on off island stuff, then the money is just going off island anyway.
If a tourist stays in a hotel, where does the money go? The majority of it goes directly to some off island corporation leaving behind a small portion in taxes and a few not even subsistence jobs. If a tourist stays in a vacation rental owned by a local person, then the local person gets the money. If they were paying the taxes on it, then it would be better than a hotel - from a standpoint of the money getting into the local economy. Although, frequently a vacation rental annoys the neighbors, so there should be a portion of the rent going to the direct neighbors for their annoyance, IMHO.
A vacation rental needs to be cleaned so there's jobs provided there, one expects the cleaners are small operations paying taxes. The renters will hopefully be going to the luaus and other excursions, although the tour operators may need to figure out a different way to advertise to the vacation rentals since they don't have the hotel concierge options. Perhaps folks providing services to tourists could get a list of vacation rentals and provide pamphlets to be given to the tourists.
IMHO, a vacation rental owned by a mainland person is about the same as the hotels, as far as taking money from Hawaii goes. Hotels provide jobs, but I've not really looked at the numbers on those jobs. Do they provide a wage folks can live on? With benefits? If so, then hotels are better than vacation rentals for the working folks.
Here on Hawaii Island, I have been seeing a LOT of new real estate listings where they mention it's been a successful vacation rental, although they don't mention the possible new laws in the real estate listing. Is the new law for Oahu only, or is it statewide? I've not read the details.
I think in earlier bills, council people were trying to make that distinction to allow TVUs and detached dwelling units for rental for hawaii residents. but i think the logistics and enforcement would be a nightmare.
Do you remember the marriot stike a while back? The cleaners were striking over pay, and they make $23 an hour starting plus fringe benefits. Not bad for unskilled labor. Normally hotel workers are highly unionized, and collective bargaining is how they "force" corporate owners to share some of their profits. Say if youre the owner 10 illegal tvus, you could make it your "job" to service the units you own, which is typically only once a week since it's not a hotel or B&B, and not employ anyone.
The new law is oahu county only. Hawaii county has their own set of laws and regulations. The state is about to pass a new law forcing airbnb to collect taxes (might veto)
If the vacation rentals are owned by local folks, then (as far as the money filtering into the local economy goes) it should be okay. Unless of course, the local person collecting the rents spends it all on off island stuff, then the money is just going off island anyway.
If a tourist stays in a hotel, where does the money go? The majority of it goes directly to some off island corporation leaving behind a small portion in taxes and a few not even subsistence jobs. If a tourist stays in a vacation rental owned by a local person, then the local person gets the money. If they were paying the taxes on it, then it would be better than a hotel - from a standpoint of the money getting into the local economy. Although, frequently a vacation rental annoys the neighbors, so there should be a portion of the rent going to the direct neighbors for their annoyance, IMHO.
A vacation rental needs to be cleaned so there's jobs provided there, one expects the cleaners are small operations paying taxes. The renters will hopefully be going to the luaus and other excursions, although the tour operators may need to figure out a different way to advertise to the vacation rentals since they don't have the hotel concierge options. Perhaps folks providing services to tourists could get a list of vacation rentals and provide pamphlets to be given to the tourists.
IMHO, a vacation rental owned by a mainland person is about the same as the hotels, as far as taking money from Hawaii goes. Hotels provide jobs, but I've not really looked at the numbers on those jobs. Do they provide a wage folks can live on? With benefits? If so, then hotels are better than vacation rentals for the working folks.
Here on Hawaii Island, I have been seeing a LOT of new real estate listings where they mention it's been a successful vacation rental, although they don't mention the possible new laws in the real estate listing. Is the new law for Oahu only, or is it statewide? I've not read the details.
I think the Hotel operations contribute much more to the local economy than you're give them credit for. Most of the Hotels on Oahu use union labor and pay a high wage for the type of work performed and many provide benefits or access to benefits.
But beyond that, the only part of the revenue of a Hotel operation that leaves the island is the net profit.
That is a very small % of the overall gross receipts. Of the gross receipts, the hotels pump money back into the local economy through every aspect of their daily business. Through not only the wages they pay every employee working at the hotel, but also through the property taxes, GET Taxes, TAT Taxes.
All the food they buy to serve at their restaurants is purchased from local distributors. All the landscaping supplies are purchased locally. All the carpet and paint and fixtures, etc used for maintenance and upkeep on the units is pumped back into the local economy by purchasing through local distributors. And beyond that, many of the Hotel operations are run by local companies such as Aston-Aqua.
Anyway, I see your point and I do understand that that an airbnb house owned by a local family keeps all of the money local. But I believe that most of the money from the large hotel operations also is spent locally to manage and maintain the hotel operation and only the net profit leaves the islands ... which might be 5% of gross revenue.
But I don't have hard facts on this. It is just my opinion.
If the vacation rentals are owned by local folks, then (as far as the money filtering into the local economy goes) it should be okay.
Hmmm, you sound like a person working for AirBnb. Of course, the 8,000+ units not available for long term renters I'm sure has no impact on the cost of that rent.
Of course having a revolving door of neighbors shouldn't be an issue for anyone, should it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotzcatz
If a tourist stays in a hotel, where does the money go? The majority of it goes directly to some off island corporation leaving behind a small portion in taxes and a few not even subsistence jobs.
I'm actually surprised in 2019 people don't realize how low margin hotel operations are - and anyone that has been to Waikiki recently can't help but notice the large capital expense on remodeling the hotels. Besides paying tens of thousands well paid jobs with full medical and retirement pay - using local companies for maintenance - buying local food, etc - what is the alternative, shut them down and lay off tens of thousands of people. Want to be an owner of Marriott, Hyatt, Hilton, go buy some stock and participate in all these profits.
Are people also outraged that Hawaiian Airlines is not locally owned? Hawaiian Electric not locally owned? Hawaiian Telcom?
illegal vacation rentals want to stay under the radar and do not pay TAT or GET, and possibly not even income taxes. The county is better off making them all illegal so the tourists rent hotels and condotels that actually pay the taxes. Illegal tvu properties are a net drain on hawaii's infrastructure
The hotels are currently at 80-85% occupancy. If that goes up by 10% by getting rid of illegal rentals, that's great! that means A LOT more taxes paid, more waikiki jobs, more spending, etc.
Airbnb could easily collect all taxes owed upfront. They have offered this feature many times and it has been refused. They can add the tax collection feature with a few clicks of the mouse. Taxes collected could be wired directly to the Dept of Taxation to the tune of 100+ million per year. The city/county would not have to add any resources to get full tax compliance with short-term rentals. It is incredibly efficient and that in itself makes it unpopular with bureaucracies. Same with Uber, it became too popular too fast and threatened the status quo.
If hotels on Oahu are running at 80% occupancy maybe it's time to demand they set aside rooms for long term rentals. If they set aside 10% of hotel rooms dedicated to local residents in areas they actually work then that would help alleviate LT housing issues. I'm sure the American Hotel and Lodging Association would be fine with this as they are so concerned with the needs of local residents. sarc.
The AHLA message is clear, local residents should not be interfering with the mainland hotels business here in Hawaii. The local employees can sing, dance and scrub toilets for the mainland resorts, but just don't try to compete, know your place.
The State should not be condoning illegal acts - they should enforce the laws already on the books.
Amen to that. And they should be representing the interests of the majority of residents first, and the tourists second. This bill seems to do that on the surface.
Amen to that. And they should be representing the interests of the majority of residents first, and the tourists second. This bill seems to do that on the surface.
Residents are a captive bunch of niM.... Poops. Their needs come last. First to be taken care of is politiciaNs self interests.
For those of u who think Airbnb is EZ money buy a unit at Aloha Surf. Pricing very under $200,000. Already zoned Resort.
If a tourist stays in a hotel, where does the money go? The majority of it goes directly to some off island corporation leaving behind a small portion in taxes and a few not even subsistence jobs.
Sorry, but this is just nuts. Granted, it's not just you... it's oddly a decent sized chunk of the general public that is equally afraid of and against big industry... when the big hotel industry is literally the lifeblood of our islands.
As noted by other posters, the vast majority of the revenue generated from tourists stays right here. Just a tiny fraction of the dollars spent by tourists actually go off island (generally less than 7% - FAR less than what is collected in state and city taxes alone). And with locally owned hotels, the money almost entirely stays here in the state. But even if the hotel was owned by a the "big bad evil mainlanders", it's totally and entirely irrelevant because the margins they operate on are tiny.
Arguably, when times are good, they make more than 7%... but what happens to these big bad wolfs when the industry turns? They suck wind is what happens. And you need to be big, massive... and well-capitalized to ride out these inevitable lousy times.
As for the Airbnbr's, as far as I'm concerned they can go pound sand. If they paid the same commercial property taxes (four times what the illegals are paying), GET and TAT, they wouldn't lift a finger and even bother with renting their homes out to transients because the profit delta (vs renting long-term) would be laughable. But they want their cake and eat it too - artificially dirt cheap operating costs with windfall revenue. I don't always agree with the general public because the average person has the mental capacity of a toaster... but with this, there is very little to argue. If you want a legal Airbnb, there are THOUSANDS of condotel units on resort-zoned land you can buy in Waikiki. As Jeers stated, go at it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
