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I have that poster on ignore, so didn't see his response until you replied to it. No matter how one slices it and tries to differentiate between similar uses, it is still attempting to limit the use of a term to someone's racial/ethnic background. That's something that I reject. I can appreciate that others feel differently, but I and others have no problem using the term "Hawaiian" to refer to residents of the state, regardless of their background. At the end of the day, people can do whatever they want. There is no language police and there is no objectively "correct" way to go about things; it is all subjective. I don't demand that people have my position on a matter, but also won't bend to suit someone else's position either
Right. You don’t care to extend customary respect to the local culture ... just as you don’t care to pay the tax rates on your Honolulu condo ... (bringing that up is why you put me on ignore as I recall) ... but you enjoy the benefits of the islands when you stay. Got it.
The actual residents of Hawaii who aren’t Native Hawaiian have issue with it
And I have a problem with their position, which hasn't changed from since when I did live on island and won't change when I move back to the island. This is a live and let live type of situation as far as I'm concerned. My position isn't hurting anyone, just as theirs isn't hurting me. It's personal preference at the end of the day, so folks should stop treating the issue as some settled, unmovable point.
And I have a problem with their position, which hasn't changed from since when I did live on island and won't change when I move back to the island. This is a live and let live type of situation as far as I'm concerned. My position isn't hurting anyone, just as theirs isn't hurting me. It's personal preference at the end of the day, so folks should stop treating the issue as some settled, unmovable point.
Ah - so the people being offended should just get over it - and people doing offensive behavior shouldn't change. Kinda like Andrew Cuomo really had nothing to apologize for - the women should have just gotten over it - I mean he didn't really hurt anyone
Heck - who needs diversity and inclusion if we can offend large swaths of the population if it doesn't really hurt anyone. I'm going to cancel all those classes my company makes me do - what a waste of time.
Ah - so the people being offended should just get over it - and people doing offensive behavior shouldn't change. Kinda like Andrew Cuomo really had nothing to apologize for - the women should have just gotten over it - I mean he didn't really hurt anyone
Heck - who needs diversity and inclusion if we can offend large swaths of the population if it doesn't really hurt anyone. I'm going to cancel all those classes my company makes me do - what a waste of time.
Considering that what is offensive is subjective as opposed objective, yes, especially if there is no ill intent or ill will behind someone's approach. Otherwise, your position would hold that those of us on this issue (or any other issue) who disagree should just shut up and back down and accept what others want to push on us. Diversity and inclusion are not a one way street, but your position would make it such. The sooner people learn to deal with differences--specifically, differences that do not physically harm them--the better off we'll be IMO.
Heck, I could see if people were getting upset because I was using a term that was historically used to offend, etc. (even then, I wouldn't let that bother me personally as they are words), but getting upset and offended over using a term as a demonym that isn't even inherently offensive to the situationally offended is bizarre to me.
And nothing like Cuomo. I'm not trying to force my position on anyone and nor am I putting my hands on anyone. I find it very interesting that those who want to dictate to others what they should say based on their own subjective sense of what's offensive--again, especially when there is no ill intent or ill will behind one's beliefs--want to talk about offense and respect. From where I stand, trying to force your views and way of doing things on others, all while claiming to be offended if someone's speech, is the height of hypocrisy and irony.
This reminds me somewhat of a debate in another forum that folks were having over whether some considered it to be poor manners and disrespectful to wear a hat indoors. My argument was that such a belief is subjective and that I'm not going to live my life based on the subjective opinions of others on what is offensive, disrespectful, etc., especially if my intent is nowhere close to meaning to cause offense, etc. Now, if the rules of an establishment are that hats aren't allowed inside, then I will, of course, not wear a hat inside as I am a guest on someone's property. But that is nothing close to what we are dealing with here; Hawaii does not belong to any one group over another.
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 03-05-2021 at 10:38 AM..
It is the Native Hawaiians who are offended by the appropriation and use the “Hawaiian” to describe non-Native Hawaiians. And most non Native Hawaiians on Island have learned this and show respect to Native Hawaiian culture by understanding this.
If Native Hawaiians were not offended by your use of the term, then I personally wouldn’t care either. But I respect their culture and beliefs by reserving Hawaiian for Native Hawaiians and Kamaaina for long time non-Native Hawaiians.
I really don’t want to get into this discussion again so this is all I will say this time around.
It is the Native Hawaiians who are offended by the appropriation and use the “Hawaiian” to describe non-Native Hawaiians. And most non Native Hawaiians on Island have learned this and show respect to Native Hawaiian culture by understanding this.
If Native Hawaiians were not offended by your use of the term, then I personally wouldn’t care either. But I respect their culture and beliefs by reserving Hawaiian for Native Hawaiians and Kamaaina for long time non-Native Hawaiians.
I really don’t want to get into this discussion again so this is all I will say this time around.
I respect your and their position. I just disagree with it. And I'd be more willing to accept the appropriation argument if it was universally applied across all cultures; but it's not. Also, from where I stand, the issue is only one of "appropriation" if the term is used in the same way that Native Hawaiians use it. But I am not doing that. I and others with similar views use the term in a completely different way that has zero to do with native culture, etc.
Even the Federal Government does not allow residents to be called "Hawaiians" in Federal Government papers, and instead must refer to people as Hawaii Residents.
Even the Federal Government does not allow residents to be called "Hawaiians" in Federal Government papers, and instead must refer to people as Hawaii Residents.
U.S. Sen. Brian Schatz urged the style board to changing the name to make it clear that not all citizens of the state are of Native Hawaiian ancestry.
That is not what that stands for; it is much more narrow in scope/doesn't apply to all federal papers, etc. And, even then, this is just a guide and not some requirement for those federal papers.
Still, if the current federal government has its way, the term "illegal alien" will also be prohibited for use in many federal documents via legislation; that's partisan bias, not evidence of how things "should" be. All of this is to say that this isn't consequential in the least, really. All this represents is an entity (in this case, the federal government) recommending a certain use of the term as applied to some in certain federal papers. Folks should really ask themselves, though, if they think it's appropriate for the government to be taking playing language police (a conversation for another day, I suppose).
Of course, regardless of what the federal government, etc., hold for the purpose of federal documents only, this has zero impact over how people can choose to self identity and the such.
I find it funny that Brian Schatz wants to make that point for the style board when people like me don't even use the term to mean Native Hawaiian ancestry
Last edited by prospectheightsresident; 03-07-2021 at 09:20 AM..
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