can we live on $135,000 on Oahu (Honolulu, Ewa Beach: sales, real estate, mortgage)

[lost_traveler1]

Manoa Valley is awsome. Very lush greenery, old, quiet community. Bad side to it is many mosquitos, lots of rain, mold issues, bottleneck traffic in and out due to the University traffic and Punahou High traffic.

Its interesting the deeper parts of the valley have HUGE wide roads and no sidewalks. There is also a strict zoning requirements where design standards prevent new development to construct outside of the charm of the Victorian/plantation style with street setbacks.

Manoa Valley is also located close to town and everything.

Originally Posted by Ketabcha

Is Manoa Uplands a good place to live? It's not far from downtown, is it? Some of the yards there are quite large.

[fatoldman]

you know I was just going to search on maskeeters. I hate those things. Are there areas without them by chance?

[fatoldman]

losttraveler - just read your post on "inner knowledge secrets". I'll use your post earlier on in this thread then as my starting point. I leave in 4 days - woo hoo!! Now need to find good place to mountbike.

[Ketabcha]

Originally Posted by lost_traveler1

Manoa Valley is awsome. Very lush greenery, old, quiet community. Bad side to it is many mosquitos, lots of rain, mold issues, bottleneck traffic in and out due to the University traffic and Punahou High traffic.

Its interesting the deeper parts of the valley have HUGE wide roads and no sidewalks. There is also a strict zoning requirements where design standards prevent new development to construct outside of the charm of the Victorian/plantation style with street setbacks.

Manoa Valley is also located close to town and everything.

I lived there in the 50s before we could get housing on Hickam. Loved it. I was just a kid but I remember going out to the front yard and gathering up avocdos to munch on. I'm glad to hear that it is still beautiful.

Thanks for the reply.

[808n310]

Originally Posted by lost_traveler1

Now I wouldn't knock Mililani and Wahiawa, but, well actually yeah I would. Talk about lowering standards of "quality of life." Back in the 90's people would accept 45 minutes drive in traffic, now they accept 75 to 90 minutes in traffic and still criticize the rail going out there. In 5 years traffic will be 2 hours. I think they put crazy pills into the water out in central Oahu.

I'm not a transplant, I'm born and raised here and I'd argue completely with living in the cookie cutter boonies of Mililani or even farther in sketchy Wahiawa. Maybe the "Heights" could be ok, but the "flats" are violent crime ridden why even ponder on that? And then add long taxing drives?

Many people talk alot about Mililani, Kunia, Kapolei, and Ewa Beach becaue thats where a lot of the population has HAD to move there because these areas have been developed in the last 10 to 20 years, so these places have so much focus on.

But if I was a transplant I'd look for the inside info that most would not know about beacuse the best places are always kept secret. But then again there is nothing common about common sense.

I think you need to keep the budget in consideration, your earlier post suggesting Kahala, Hawaii Kai etc weren't helpful in the sense that you're completely missing the point. Sure, I know tons of people with beautiful, non-cookie cutter homes on generous pieces of land in those areas, they also have ten thousand dollar mortgages and believe you me, will not be renting their home anytime soon for $2500. At that price, in those neighborhoods, you're looking at two bedroom condos, not ideal for a family of five seeking outdoor space.

What secret places are you referring to? LOL, common sense dictates that more desireable areas close to town will cost more, if they don't, something is most likely fundamentally wrong with the property....and unfortunately people don't just drastically under-value their rent potential for no reason, landlords aren't known for charity...

Wahiawa Heights, stretches of the windward side (not Kailua), more like Hauula, Leeward Oahu, etc, those are places where larger patches of land in actual reality, could possibly be had for the price point that the OP is wishing to stay within....they may not be places that YOU find desireable, but they are the realistic options of the OP.

[Bandalero]

Greetings,

Having lived here in Hawaii now (off and on) for nearly thirty years, I can tell you with confidence that you'll "get-by" on that figure ($135K/year), no more, no less. If anything, its on the low-side for a family of five living on Oahu.

I say this because $135K gross income translates to about $100K/year net or approximately $8K per month take-home, especially here in Hawaii, the 2nd highest taxed state in the union (for 2008). Forget a mortgage of any kind or buying a single family home because you won't be able to go there unless you've got about 50% down payment (i.e., $285K on the median home price of $570K). But if you rent at ~$3K/month, your monthly rent, utilities, groceries, vehicle payment(s), gasoline, insurance, clothing, and outer-island or mainland travel costs (if any) will blow right through that $8K post-haste.

I've got a particularly good perspective on this because I lost my own job here a year or so ago ($85K/year), and my wife is currently making up the slack by working TWO (40-hour/week) jobs yielding precisely $135K when combined. And presently, we're just "squeakin" by!

Good Luck.

[fatoldman]

thanks Bandalero for your candid perspective. I was discouraged by your situation of $8k/month net = "squeaking by". I've also reset my expectations to better align with reality. Although it was never a requirement, more of a nice to have, I'm focusing on regula community homes with 3+ bed rooms at $2500 or less. Through my searches I've found a bunch and so doesn't appear to be a problem there. If I set my food budget at $2000/month so far my output is $4500. That would leave $3500 for gas, fun, misc, clothes, etc each month. My hunch is that $3500/month after rent and food should be ample but again, perhaps my expectations on that front are not based on reality. If it's that expensive that $135k can't make it comfortably than I'd have to say that narry a soul can make it comfortably which would mean that most are uncomfortable. One would then need to ask the question whether the fact of living in Hawaii, beach, weather, etc is worth, or makes up for, being uncomfortable as a fact of live.

[Galactastica]

maybe it's just me, but i can't imagine barely "squeaking by" on a salary like that. what is it you have to pay for? given i don't have children, but i can imagine having them would add to cost...but i'm really curious other than children, what is causing that? it just seems like quite a substatial salary to me.

[mdand3boys]

Originally Posted by Galactastica

maybe it's just me, but i can't imagine barely "squeaking by" on a salary like that. what is it you have to pay for? given i don't have children, but i can imagine having them would add to cost...but i'm really curious other than children, what is causing that? it just seems like quite a substatial salary to me.

I agree and we have children! We would love to be at $135k on the Big Island! Livin' Large, indeed.

[Bandalero]

Originally Posted by fatoldman

1) I'm focusing on regular community homes with 3+ bed rooms at $2500 or less. Through my searches I've found a bunch and so doesn't appear to be a problem there.

2) If I set my food budget at $2000/mo. so far my output is $4500. That would leave $3500 for gas, fun, misc, clothes, etc each month. My hunch is that $3500/month after rent and food should be ample, but again, perhaps my expectations on that front are not based on reality.

3) If it's that expensive that $135k can't make it comfortably than I'd have to say that narry a soul can make it comfortably which would mean that most are uncomfortable. One would then need to ask the question whether the fact of living in Hawaii, beach, weather, etc is worth, or makes up for, being uncomfortable as a fact of live.

RESPONSE:

1) From 2003-2006, I rented the modest, 2-bedroom/2-bath, 40-year old, 1200 sq. ft. home that I currently own here on Oahu at the rate of $2400 per month. In late 2006, in an effort to avoid being forced out by the owner who wanted to sell, I agreed to purchase it for $637,000 and I now pay over $4000 per month! In terms of size, features, age, condition, location, etc., I can say with confidence that this same home would sell in the greater Phoenix or Las Vegas markets for less than $100,000, and further, that relative to the Hawaii real estate market, it is well-below the current median home value on Oahu. So, if your family of seven (7) can live comfortably in a three bedroom home here (2-3/room), and you can pick from a legion of such rental homes priced at <$2400 (as you say), then go for it! But I suspect you'll be talking about somewhere like Ewa Beach or Mililani which will entail quite a commute.

2) No, that would leave $3500 each month for gas, fun, clothes, etc., plus UTILITIES which will be +/- $1,000/month (i.e., electric, land-line phone, cell phone, internet service, cable TV, Board of Water Supply, etc., etc.). NOTE: I know impoverished local families smaller than your own, living in Waianae with 1-2 window A/C units, that commonly pay >$600/month for power alone! Trust me, to be realistic, you'll want to expand your spreadsheet of monthly expenses beyond rent, food, gas, fun and clothes. You'll want to include things like haircuts, vehicle registrations, traffic tickets, school supplies, travel, etc.. If you've raised five kids, you know this already. You know that it goes WAY beyond "miscellaneous".

3) Nope. You keep citing this $135K figure as though it were "net" wages and as though it were somehow "competitive" here in Hawaii. Its neither. First off, its not $135K in spendable funds! Its $90-100K (net), and its $50-60K after housing with utilities or $20-30K after housing, utilities and food. Secondly, $135K per year (gross earnings) is NOT "big money" for most folks here. You can believe that or not, but it ain't! Yes, for a single person or single wage earner, you're doing fabulous, but if its your sole income in a household of seven (7) where you do not own your home outright, then its not. If you own your home or condo already (like most locals do) or you've inherited your home or you've got a dowery of some sort, then great! You're all set. But for the average working couple with 0-2 kids, $135K gross (taxable) earnings is somewhere between average to slightly above average money, period. By example, the Honolulu Advertiser reported in an article here almost a full year ago that the average physician in Hawaii made >$500,000/year, yet that same article stated that physicians were 'flocking' out of Hawaii by the droves (an absolute exodus)! Why? Is that because they're all struggling on an income of $500,000? No. Its because after Hawaii's extreme tax gauntlet and other regulatory measures, they're never seeing anywhere NEAR that figure when all is said and done.

As for whether life out here is worth it or not (given those parameters), I'll leave that to you. Many feel it is and many don't. Keep one thing in mind in your deliberations: Most local families here in Hawaii have extensive family also residing here. In practical terms, this means that they are reticent to leave the islands, no matter how bad it gets (i.e., they resist moving away on strictly financial terms). When (or if) they leave the islands, they leave family members behind, which is not typically true for Mainland transplants, and this is NOT something that is easy for them to do. I'm talking here about Hawaiians, Samoans, Tongans, Filipinos, Japanese, Chinese, Portagee, whatevah! Its too hard emotionally for many of them and its even cost prohibitive for some. Good or bad, this dynamic exists here more than most places you'll ever live or visit, and make no mistake about it, the average employer here is well-aware of this limitation. This is precisely why wages are kept artificially low here (relative to the cost of living), because those folks make up 70-80% of the populus here and they'll work below scale before opting to move away. In fact, one dear (elderly) Filipino friend of mine often says about his State job . . . "they pretend to pay me, so I pretend to work".

So, in closing, yes, you'll be just fine here on $90-100K in your pocket each year with five kids to house, clothe and feed, but you won't be above the median, and you won't be living large.

Good Luck.