Is Southern Ohio considered part of the south? (Columbus, Cincinnati: gated, camps)

[KY_Transplant]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

I still cannot figure out what "Culture" bs means these days. Southern/Midwestern culture what in the hell does that mean? It is just meaningless labels referring to the days long gone by. Income bracket and selective mass cult exposure defines your "culture" not residence or location, or your parents for that matter.

False. Yes, socioeconomic status can contribute to one's culture, but there are so many more variables to what makes up someone's collective culture and the USA has many different cultures, just like our World has many different cultures. If only income and whatever "mass cult exposure is"', made up our culture, this forum probably wouldn't exist because there would be such little difference between people and places, no one would move.

[ABQConvict]

Originally Posted by censusdata

There are working class enclaves of Appalachian / Southern culture in SW Ohio like Elmwood Place / Carthage, Hamilton, and Middletown but the vast majority of people in SW Ohio are solidly Midwestern. A lot of my family moved North from rural KY and my 2nd / 3rd cousins that remained in OH / IN / MI are totally Midwestern.

I have visited Hamilton my whole life and even lived there. There is definitely a KY influence, as you put it, in enclaves, but as a whole I would still say it and Butler county as a whole, is Midwestern by orders of magnitude more than it is Southern. No, it is not Minnesota, but it is not Lexington or even Louisville, either.

When I am hanging out with a group of people in Hamilton, even 50+ years after the main migration from Appalachia, I can still tell, with pretty good accuracy, decendants of the Kentuckian economic migrants who came to work in industrial mills from the descendants of Ohio farmers and townspeople.

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by ABQConvict

I have visited Hamilton my whole life and even lived there. There is definitely a KY influence, as you put it, in enclaves, but as a whole I would still say it and Butler county as a whole, is Midwestern by orders of magnitude more than it is Southern. No, it is not Minnesota, but it is not Lexington or even Louisville, either.

When I am hanging out with a group of people in Hamilton, even 50+ years after the main migration from Appalachia, I can still tell, with pretty good accuracy, decendants of the Kentuckian economic migrants who came to work in industrial mills from the descendants of Ohio farmers and townspeople.

It varies how fast accents go away in the 2nd and 3rd generations. Most of my family still in Hamilton and NKY have no Southern accent at all. Among my older siblings who were born and raised around Cincy 2 have Midwestern accents and two have Southern accents. They were raised in the same household.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by RememberMee

I still cannot figure out what "Culture" bs means these days. Southern/Midwestern culture what in the hell does that mean? It is just meaningless labels referring to the days long gone by. Income bracket and selective mass cult exposure defines your "culture" not residence or location, or your parents for that matter.

Not true. While the many cultures within the US are quite similar they are in not exactly the same.

Think of the US as bread. There's Rye, Standard White, Wheat, Potato, Italian, and Whole grain. It's all bread, sure, but they all have distinctions too. You aren't going to eat a slice of Rye and think, "this is just like that slice of Potato I tasted!"

There is a generally northern culture as much as there is a generally southern one. Each with its own gradients and enclaves.

I'll give you that they have over time influenced one another. Italian-American style cooking is more popular in the south now than it ever was before. Southern style cooking is more known in the north than ever before. ETC. However you can't influence something that is exactly the same as you are and that alone is enough to show where the differences lay.

[schmave]

As for the original question, people who live in southern Ohio might not consider themselves part of the South, but many of us who grew up in central, western or northern Ohio probably think of that as at least an extension of the South. For me, the border between the North and South is the Ohio River.
Having grown up in Columbus, I consider myself a Midwesterner through and through. Ohio as close as 40 miles east or south of Columbus is a different world, quite Appalachian. Over the years, I've come to think the Midwest unofficially stops along a line from Newark down to around Thornville and Somerset, then to Lancaster and Chillicothe, then over to Cincinnati. Anywhere east or south of that line is Appalachia. I do not consider Zanesville, Logan, Athens, etc. part of the Midwest, but I don't consider them part of the South.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by schmave

As for the original question, people who live in southern Ohio might not consider themselves part of the South, but many of us who grew up in central, western or northern Ohio probably think of that as at least an extension of the South. For me, the border between the North and South is the Ohio River.
Having grown up in Columbus, I consider myself a Midwesterner through and through. Ohio as close as 40 miles east or south of Columbus is a different world, quite Appalachian. Over the years, I've come to think the Midwest unofficially stops along a line from Newark down to around Thornville and Somerset, then to Lancaster and Chillicothe, then over to Cincinnati. Anywhere east or south of that line is Appalachia. I do not consider Zanesville, Logan, Athens, etc. part of the Midwest, but I don't consider them part of the South.

Fair enough this.

I remind readers that Appalachian does not necessarily equal southern.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Portsmouth Ohio | Where Southern Hospitality Begins

I'm also curious about Portsmouth claiming to be "Where Southern Hospitality Begins". Wouldn't Ashland, Kentucky or Huntington, WV be more accurate?

I've been through Ironton and South Point when going between Huntington and Ashland but didn't really stop or experience much and I don't know how abrupt the culture change is when crossing the Mason-Dixon Line at that point. I know that line between Southern and Northern culture is very clear and abrupt in Northern Virginia, and when entering northern exclaves in the South like parts of the Research Triangle and South Florida. Is the culture shift around Portsmouth and Ironton more gradual like going from Nuevo Laredo to Laredo or more like going from Tijuana to San Diego? Is Ironton "Southern" in the way that Laredo is Mexican?

Also WV and extreme southwest VA are the only places that seem to have a proud "Appalachian identity". People in Western Maryland still identify primarily as Marylanders even if they feel a major disconnect from the DC suburbs that control the state politically and which forces anti-rural legislation statewide. Everyone I know from East Tennessee especially around Chattanooga claim "Southern pride" more so than Appalachian. Do people in Portsmouth and Ironton claim an Appalachian identity that they identify with more so than with Ohio as a whole? I also wonder if southern Ohio residents feel alienated from the rest of the state which is dominated by the industries of the major cities and the agriculture of most of the other rural areas?

As for WV, I live in the southern part of the state and most people here claim Southern pride and my town is known locally for being fond of the rebel flag and related issues at our local high school regarding students standing up to political correctness. I personally was born in the Deep South and also have a lot of Southern pride. But I've not familiar with Parkersburg which borders Marietta and am only slightly familiar with Morgantown whose culture is diluted by the presence of a large number of students from New York and New Jersey. to the extent that Northern culture exists in northern WV I'm not quite sure if its more of a Northeast culture or a Midwestern culture.

[CookieSkoon]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

to the extent that Northern culture exists in northern WV I'm not quite sure if its more of a Northeast culture or a Midwestern culture.

To be frank, the cultural difference between the northeast and the midwest is mostly imaginary.

[Dayton Sux]

I'm also curious about Portsmouth claiming to be "Where Southern Hospitality Begins". Wouldn't Ashland, Kentucky or Huntington, WV be more accurate?

I've been through Ironton and South Point when going between Huntington and Ashland but didn't really stop or experience much and I don't know how abrupt the culture change is when crossing the Mason-Dixon Line at that point.

Believe me Ironton, South Point, Hanging Rock, New Boston, and Portsmouth are all birds of a feather with Ashland, Catelletsburg, Kenova, Ceredo, Huntington. Redneck Appalachia.....yes, much more URBAN...but still......


Where the sun comes up about ten in the morning/
And the sun goes down about three in the day/
And you fill your cup with whatever bitter brew you're drinking/
And you spend your life just thinkin' of how to get away

...except its dead factories instead of dead coal mines that makes that brew bitter.

[Buckeye614]

Originally Posted by CookieSkoon

To be frank, the cultural difference between the northeast and the midwest is mostly imaginary.

Not true at all. Maybe if you're talking the interior Northeast like upstate New York or Western PA but I can assure you there are pretty major culture differences between the BosWash corridor and most of the Midwest.