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dvxhd, you will never, ever be able to get Oklahoma out of your system. It has become a part of your psyche and will be with you for the total of your time on this earth. You've been here far too long and the jinx is forever. Here's hoping you get the job.
I read once that reindeer were introduced as Christianity spread to Scandinavia, as that was yet another way to pander to the locals to get them to convert. I think they may have been more obscure until that poem was written.
I wish American Christians would put their faith to the test like some other cultures. Take for example the crucifixion festival in the Philippines. Or the Hermanos de Luz of New Mexico, discovered by the US Cavalry in 1865, in which the Third Order of St. Francis decreed self-flagellation, carrying crosses, wearing a crown of thorns, crawling on the desert floor with cacti fastened to their skin, and the "chosen one" was crucified (with nails, not ropes) and taken down when he passed out. But they can still look up and pray to the grisly, morbid scene of a man being tortured on a cross.
Actually, the whole scenerio of santa and christmas and the reindeer come whole cloth from Scandinavian paganism. The green tree brought inside and decorated celebrates the winter solstice, and the beginning of the end of winter. Remember back then you stored all your winter food and rationed it carefully, and that spring was now coming over going (the longer days) was a momentious thing to celebrate. And Oden visited the children, giving gifts of fruit to those who were good. Fruit would be a much greater gift than a toy then. The European Santa wears a green outfit and is festooned with fruit over boxes, and is still portrayed that way.
The Nordic king had come to see value in becoming an ally of the christan nations below, and decreed that the population be babtised. Some refused, some did it as a sham, but they continued to celebrate Yule as Christmas. And some celebrated Yule anyway. Since it was done the same way they couldn't tell. So Christmas was advanced a few days. Those who celebrated the solstice could be identified that way.
I have no problem with celebrating Yule with the same trappings but am NOT celebrating a christan holiday.
The pagan religions were willing to co exist. The christans were the ones who had to be the only true one. So what does this say about the so called good christans who checked to see if the neighbor had a party on yule?
Maybe christans should read up on the REAL history of their religion before insisting it is so good and blessed.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,551 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubi3
dvxhd, you will never, ever be able to get Oklahoma out of your system. It has become a part of your psyche and will be with you for the total of your time on this earth. You've been here far too long and the jinx is forever. Here's hoping you get the job.
Thanks for the last part at least. It went very well and they requested references. Good sign I think. Now, if the salary is right I'll show myself out, and my request was very reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47
Actually, the whole scenerio of santa and christmas and the reindeer come whole cloth from Scandinavian paganism. The green tree brought inside and decorated celebrates the winter solstice, and the beginning of the end of winter. Remember back then you stored all your winter food and rationed it carefully, and that spring was now coming over going (the longer days) was a momentious thing to celebrate. And Oden visited the children, giving gifts of fruit to those who were good. Fruit would be a much greater gift than a toy then. The European Santa wears a green outfit and is festooned with fruit over boxes, and is still portrayed that way.
The Nordic king had come to see value in becoming an ally of the christan nations below, and decreed that the population be babtised. Some refused, some did it as a sham, but they continued to celebrate Yule as Christmas. And some celebrated Yule anyway. Since it was done the same way they couldn't tell. So Christmas was advanced a few days. Those who celebrated the solstice could be identified that way.
I have no problem with celebrating Yule with the same trappings but am NOT celebrating a christan holiday.
The pagan religions were willing to co exist. The christans were the ones who had to be the only true one. So what does this say about the so called good christans who checked to see if the neighbor had a party on yule?
Maybe christans should read up on the REAL history of their religion before insisting it is so good and blessed.
I knew reindeer were introduced because of Scandinavia, but didn't remember the details precisely. I do think it's odd how selective Christians are about what should and should not be adopted into the holiday. Take Krampus, "the Christmas devil" for example. St. Nicholas is okay, but his counterpart is verboten. Giving gifts is fine, sacrificing pigs isn't, both of which the Romans did. I agree with you in not celebrating the day, and frankly only do because of whatever obligation is dragging me into it, such as family, work functions, etc. To me, the greatest place to spend Christmas is Asia, where its presence is heavily downplayed compared to America. Local Christians will put some decorations, but it's not in-your-face and down-your-throat as it is in this country. And sadly, we're in that time when they bang the war drums for the annual "War on Christmas" rally, though St. Nick's Day has been effectively erased, the increasingly ridiculous hours on Thanksgiving day show that it's about to go down next, and I've seen stores with Christmas decorations put out simultaneously with, or even before Halloween items. I'm ready for it to hurry up and get here so it can go away for a year.
Thanks for the last part at least. It went very well and they requested references. Good sign I think. Now, if the salary is right I'll show myself out, and my request was very reasonable.
I knew reindeer were introduced because of Scandinavia, but didn't remember the details precisely. I do think it's odd how selective Christians are about what should and should not be adopted into the holiday. Take Krampus, "the Christmas devil" for example. St. Nicholas is okay, but his counterpart is verboten. Giving gifts is fine, sacrificing pigs isn't, both of which the Romans did. I agree with you in not celebrating the day, and frankly only do because of whatever obligation is dragging me into it, such as family, work functions, etc. To me, the greatest place to spend Christmas is Asia, where its presence is heavily downplayed compared to America. Local Christians will put some decorations, but it's not in-your-face and down-your-throat as it is in this country. And sadly, we're in that time when they bang the war drums for the annual "War on Christmas" rally, though St. Nick's Day has been effectively erased, the increasingly ridiculous hours on Thanksgiving day show that it's about to go down next, and I've seen stores with Christmas decorations put out simultaneously with, or even before Halloween items. I'm ready for it to hurry up and get here so it can go away for a year.
Congrats on your interview. I hope you get your wish. We should all find a place we want to be.
Easter is even more straight from the norse religion. Its basically a fertility ceremony, since it comes when the ground becomes warm enough to plant your crops. The rabbit stands for fertility probably because male rabbits mostly think about sex, from the ones I took care of for a friend.
When the family got together I didn't mind celebrating Christmas but they are still mostly in California, gradually drifting to other places. My son is moving so it wouldn't help to move, and he's juggling work and school and getting enough hours to get there anyway. I don't have a problem with the non-secular holiday of family gathering with presents. To me it celebrates family. Add religious meaning and insist and I'm out.
On Yule I think I will hold a rudimentary ceremony this year to celebrate it finally being MY house. Gives me impitus to go into the extra bedroom/storage and sort it through too. That's my actual celebration. I wish I could find acorns here. We had them all over the place where I lived.
I have no problem with people celebrating a religious christmas too, just don't insist on pushing it on others as the only meaning you can have. Or give it no meaning at all. Its all in how we relate to the universe.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,551 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by nightbird47
Congrats on your interview. I hope you get your wish. We should all find a place we want to be.
Easter is even more straight from the norse religion. Its basically a fertility ceremony, since it comes when the ground becomes warm enough to plant your crops. The rabbit stands for fertility probably because male rabbits mostly think about sex, from the ones I took care of for a friend.
When the family got together I didn't mind celebrating Christmas but they are still mostly in California, gradually drifting to other places. My son is moving so it wouldn't help to move, and he's juggling work and school and getting enough hours to get there anyway. I don't have a problem with the non-secular holiday of family gathering with presents. To me it celebrates family. Add religious meaning and insist and I'm out.
On Yule I think I will hold a rudimentary ceremony this year to celebrate it finally being MY house. Gives me impitus to go into the extra bedroom/storage and sort it through too. That's my actual celebration. I wish I could find acorns here. We had them all over the place where I lived.
I have no problem with people celebrating a religious christmas too, just don't insist on pushing it on others as the only meaning you can have. Or give it no meaning at all. Its all in how we relate to the universe.
Thank you. The timing is better (now that I've replenished my savings and got some work experience and longevity) but I'll have to wait before I get too excited.
My issue with the secularism goes back to what I told the OP about the buildings lighting up select floors to display the cross. That was an odd thing for me to see the first time, and it still feels odd though I've spent the past few Christmases here. I was in downtown Dallas a couple years ago on Christmas Eve and they had a lot of standard lights/decorations at the street level. I went to Vegas one year around this time and the decorations were very low key. Anywhere else I've ever been around the holidays I haven't seen the cross on several buildings, so it comes off as though it's intentionally excluding non-Christians and desperately holding onto (and trying to reaffirm and reassure) that this is the Bible Belt. It feels as though it condones and endorses only one type of religion, and I think that can be very off-putting to a lot of people. I know Christians at home, and I showed them pics of those buildings, and they even agreed that was a bit much. I'm glad you can celebrate it as you want. I'd rather sleep in and take in some quiet, so maybe next year
For your acorn problem, my parents live near Lake Thunderbird and those are scattered all over the ground there. That may be a bit of a haul for you, but I've seen them there.
Thank you. The timing is better (now that I've replenished my savings and got some work experience and longevity) but I'll have to wait before I get too excited.
My issue with the secularism goes back to what I told the OP about the buildings lighting up select floors to display the cross. That was an odd thing for me to see the first time, and it still feels odd though I've spent the past few Christmases here. I was in downtown Dallas a couple years ago on Christmas Eve and they had a lot of standard lights/decorations at the street level. I went to Vegas one year around this time and the decorations were very low key. Anywhere else I've ever been around the holidays I haven't seen the cross on several buildings, so it comes off as though it's intentionally excluding non-Christians and desperately holding onto (and trying to reaffirm and reassure) that this is the Bible Belt. It feels as though it condones and endorses only one type of religion, and I think that can be very off-putting to a lot of people. I know Christians at home, and I showed them pics of those buildings, and they even agreed that was a bit much. I'm glad you can celebrate it as you want. I'd rather sleep in and take in some quiet, so maybe next year
For your acorn problem, my parents live near Lake Thunderbird and those are scattered all over the ground there. That may be a bit of a haul for you, but I've seen them there.
Yeah, thats a bit far for acorns. When I lived in California we had oak trees all the way up and down both sides of the street, and old ones at that. LOTS of acorns. Problem was I discovered I'm really allergic to the pollen. And I know, its the waiting that can get to you. Hang in there.
I know what you mean about the quasi official 'status' of one religion with things like the ten commandments and the crosses and a few other things. One small school district had displays for the holiday up. One girl brought a tasteful display of Wicca and Yule. The school principal said she had complaints and found it 'disturbing' and removed the display. None of them should have been there in the first place, but leaving the christan related ones up was so wrong. If I had a kid in school I'd probably home school them here. I also know people who are devout types, but never push religion and give their time and money to charity because they believe its right without hawking religion. So its a mixed bag.
I have a shepard puppy who's about six months and hitting the doggie 'two year old' age and she insures you never have nothing to do. Also very smart, which makes life interesting. If I was intending decorations I would put them off until she grows up a bit.
Yeh, your dominance has been demonstrated on City-Data, the perfect arena for qualified and exemplary individuals such as yourself to display their intellection in grand fashion. Kudos to you.
I am especially impressed by your high moral fiber.
Again, well done, God Bless, and hopefully you'll find some happiness out here on the Southern Plains.
I guess some people have to find out that being full of yourself generally doesn't play well anywhere.
Congrats on your interview. I hope you get your wish. We should all find a place we want to be.
Easter is even more straight from the norse religion. Its basically a fertility ceremony, since it comes when the ground becomes warm enough to plant your crops. The rabbit stands for fertility probably because male rabbits mostly think about sex, from the ones I took care of for a friend.
When the family got together I didn't mind celebrating Christmas but they are still mostly in California, gradually drifting to other places. My son is moving so it wouldn't help to move, and he's juggling work and school and getting enough hours to get there anyway. I don't have a problem with the non-secular holiday of family gathering with presents. To me it celebrates family. Add religious meaning and insist and I'm out.
On Yule I think I will hold a rudimentary ceremony this year to celebrate it finally being MY house. Gives me impitus to go into the extra bedroom/storage and sort it through too. That's my actual celebration. I wish I could find acorns here. We had them all over the place where I lived.
I have no problem with people celebrating a religious christmas too, just don't insist on pushing it on others as the only meaning you can have. Or give it no meaning at all. Its all in how we relate to the universe.
This Easter I'm gonna see if I can convince the wife to stay home from church and have a fertility ceremony instead. Ain't much fertile about us anymore, but it's still fun to pretend!
I guess some people have to find out that being full of yourself generally doesn't play well anywhere.
Sometimes it's just experience and the living of life that brings a more positive and grounded perspective.
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Kudos to you. 
