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Where did I say that? To begin with, I have worked as an appraiser, have a masters in RE and currently do underwriting on a daily basis. Maybe what I'm saying is too confusing for you. If that's the case, I'm sorry but I'm not going to dumb it down as it's not worth my time.
Hmm, let's take a look:
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Originally Posted by som3on3_10
Ever notice how cities with better schools tend to have higher property values?
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Originally Posted by HyperionGap
Oh, so you're saying I would have to spend more for the same house? How is that a good thing? Guess you didn't think about that.
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Originally Posted by som3on3_10
Well it actually wouldn't be the "same house" because one would be in Santa Ana and the other wouldn't so I really didn't have to think about that one.
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Originally Posted by HyperionGap
Durr? Go look up the principles of real estate valuation. Key terms to focus on would be comparable & ceteris parebus.
What exactly is there to compare if the 2 homes are in different cities? I CAN dumb this down for you if needed. And you have a masters in RE? Perhaps you should think about a new profession?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap
Yep you nailed it. When buying a home those are the only two things to consider. Whether it will hold its value or it won't.
Stop back pedaling, I asked a simple question. If you can't answer fine, but stop dancing around it. Since you're such a RE expert, how would a potential buyer react if they were told that the home they were looking at has a high potential to not hold its value? You don't think that would have a huge influence on their buying decision? I'm willing to bet it would on most buyers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HyperionGap
Yeah those must be the only scenarios two scenarios EVER possible in real estate investment.
Those aren't the only 2 scenarios, but those 2 scenarios include cities that YOU are using in your argument so I am sticking to YOUR argument. Get it?
And just so you know, I also do not live in any of these cities that you are mentioning. You don't like Irvine I get it, but to call Irvine a sh**hole and prop up Santa Ana when homes in Irvine cost almost twice as much as homes in Santa Ana sounds like sour grapes to me.
It is cheaper for several reasons.
Prejudice is the primary reason. Aka fear. Santa Ana is mostly Hispanic and they are different from stereotypical white people (they have much better parties). Immerse yourself in their culture and actually get to know your neighbors and it can be a terrific experience. There are bad parts of the culture along with good and other bad parts that relate to poverty rather than culture. Overall it cna be a challenge but you can make it work even for a family.
ColdJensen, first and foremost welcome back to commenting in this forum. It seems it has been awhile since you have posted here. I appreciate your enthusiasm towards Santa Ana and for the most part agree with your perspective. However, I disagree to some extent with your comments quoted above.
No question, Santa Ana has more urban attributes than any other community in OC. Unfortunately, most of these attributes present the city in a negative light that far out-weight any positive benefits that the city may provide. It is one of the top five densest cities in the U.S. Over 40% the households experience severe to moderate overcrowding where there is an average more than one person per room occupying the home. With all those folks concentrated in pockets throughout the city, there is an tremendous strain on the entire city's infrastructure from roads to sewers to public services. Along with the density, Santa Ana has the highest poverty rate (double the county's average) and a median household income 3 standard deviations below the overall county. Thus, the city struggles to maintain its infrastructure from lack of sufficient tax revenue. In addition, there is large inventory of buildings that need to be upgraded or replaced that gives the city a overall rundown appearance, even with all the new construction that has taken place since the 1980's. Santa Ana Blvd off the 5 Frwy, "the Gateway to the Downtown," still has a junky feel to it as enter downtown, even with all the new condos and homes that have recently been built.
Like it has been mentioned, there are some great neighborhoods. But there are also many not so great areas, that pull down the city's overall image. And even if you live in one of those great neighborhoods, you still are going to be negatively impacted from these other areas. It is true that if you held up Santa Ana to other 300K population cities, it might hold its own pretty well. However people who live in OC are going to rightfully judge it's quality of life to the other 33 cities in this tremendous county. And therefore, only a very small percentage of those with the means live elsewhere would choose the benefits of Santa Ana over it's cost in aggravation, inconvenience and safety. People may convene these thoughts in racist terms, but nevertheless this is the underlying issue.
Last edited by Fast Cat; 01-13-2015 at 09:50 PM..
Reason: add clarification
ColdJensen, first and foremost welcome back to commenting in this forum. It seems it has been awhile since you have posted here. I appreciate your enthusiasm towards Santa Ana and for the most part agree with your perspective. However, I disagree to some extent with your comments quoted above.
No question, Santa Ana has more urban attributes than any other community in OC. Unfortunately, most of these attributes present the city in a negative light that far out-weight any positive benefits that the city may provide. It is one of the top five densest cities in the U.S. Over 40% the households experience severe to moderate overcrowding where there is an average more than one person per room occupying the home. With all those folks concentrated in pockets throughout the city, there is an tremendous strain on the entire city's infrastructure from roads to sewers to public services. Along with the density, Santa Ana has the highest poverty rate (double the county's average) and a median household income 3 standard deviations below the overall county. Thus, the city struggles to maintain its infrastructure from lack of sufficient tax revenue. In addition, there is large inventory of buildings that need to be upgraded or replaced that gives the city a overall rundown appearance, even with all the new construction that has taken place since the 1980's. Santa Ana Blvd off the 5 Frwy, "the Gateway to the Downtown," still has a junky feel to it as enter downtown, even with all the new condos and homes that have recently been built.
Like it has been mentioned, there are some great neighborhoods. But there are also many not so great areas, that pull down the city's overall image. And even if you live in one of those great neighborhoods, you still are going to be negatively impacted from these other areas. It is true that if you held up Santa Ana to other 300K population cities, it might hold its own pretty well. However people who live in OC are going to rightfully judge it's quality of life to the other 33 cities in this tremendous county. And therefore, only a very small percentage of those with the means live elsewhere would choose the benefits of Santa Ana over it's cost in aggravation, inconvenience and safety. People may convene these thoughts in racist terms, but nevertheless this is the underlying issue.
I think you painted a very accurate picture, overall, of many of the issues the city has to deal with, but I frankly disagree with the bold parts, and I say this as someone that has lived (albeit only a year), studied (at SAC - 5 terms) and worked in the city (for the last 5 years). When I lived in Santa Ana, I had the pleasure of living right next to the floral park neighborhood, and I never had any issues. None. I would go out for runs, at nights and early mornings, walk to mother's market for my groceries, and many times walked to my job (which at the time was located in Downtown Santana, by the Ronald Reagan Federal Building and U.S. Courthouse). When we were at the location (now we are closer to Tustin), I would walk daily from our office to downtown for lunch. I really miss that, and no one in my office, or any other that I heard of, ever had any issues in terms of safety.
I had a friend who lived in the worst parts of Santa Ana, and what you describe above fits his neighborhood perfectly (unfortunately). I also have friends who live in middle class neighborhoods of Santa Ana (which tend to border the other cities, away from the center), and they are very clean, well maintained neighborhoods, far from run down, that would fit nicely in ANY other part of OC that has post WWII tract housing (mostly North and parts of Central OC).
I think you painted a very accurate picture, overall, of many of the issues the city has to deal with, but I frankly disagree with the bold parts, and I say this as someone that has lived (albeit only a year), studied (at SAC - 5 terms) and worked in the city (for the last 5 years).
Quote:
Unfortunately, most of these attributes present the city in a negative light that far out-weight any positive benefits that the city may provide.
Just this evening, I traveled to Cesar Chavez High School to attend a volunteer event. The school is located in a very sketchy area. The campus was completely locked down like a prison. I had to park on the street which was very limited. Several thugs congregated out in front for some unknown reason. Every other home that I passed as I walked to the school had some type of threatening dog to guard the occupants property.
In another example, I went to Sandpointe Park one weekend summer afternoon to enjoy some recreation with my kids and there was a gentleman laying on a picnic table wearing only his underwear. In either instance if I am someone who is not familiar with the community, what impression what I get?
Quote:
And even if you live in one of those great neighborhoods, you still are going to be negatively impacted from these other areas.
As a Floral Park resident, you might not have individually become a crime victim or had to put up with noisy neighbors in overcrowded apartments. However you probably have had deal with seeing graffiti outside that neighborhood or potholes strewed streets or overcrowded time consuming roadways.
I am glad Mother's market has located at CityPlace, however in general there are limited retail choices within the city's border. In city of 300K plus, there is only one Vons, and one Ralphs Supermarkets. There is only one fitness center to the best of my knowledge (LA Fitness). There is a Costco in Fountain Valley and in Tustin, but none in Santa Ana. Within a short drive of my home in HB, there is a Costco, WalMart, and two Targets.
So indirectly there are many inconveniences that SA residents have to face regardless of where they live. For some these are minor hassles, but for most OC residents these are things that they typically do not have to face or would not tolerate.
Last edited by Fast Cat; 01-14-2015 at 09:56 PM..
Reason: Add clarification
Why is this a surprise to anyone? Its no secret Santa Ana is one of the absolute worst cities in OC (if not THE worst) when it comes to just about everything. The housing prices reflect that. Don't bother arguing with Rudy, he has always staunchly defended that garbage wasteland like its actually a somewhat desirable place to live
Just this evening, I traveled to Cesar Chavez High School to attend a volunteer event. The school is located in a very sketchy area. The campus was completely locked down like a prison. I had to park on the street which was very limited. Several thugs congregated out in front for some unknown reason. Every other home that I passed as I walked to the school had some type of threatening dog to guard the occupants property.
In another example, I went to Sandpointe Park one weekend summer afternoon to enjoy some recreation with my kids and there was a gentleman laying on a picnic table wearing only his underwear. In either instance if I am someone who is not familiar with the community, what impression what I get?
As a Floral Park resident, you might not have individually become a crime victim or had to put up with noisy neighbors in overcrowded apartments. However you probably have had deal with seeing graffiti outside that neighborhood or potholes strewed streets or overcrowded time consuming roadways.
I am glad Mother's market has located at CityPlace, however in general there are limited retail choices within the city's border. In city of 300K plus, there is only one Vons, and one Ralphs Supermarkets. There is only one fitness center to the best of my knowledge (LA Fitness). There is a Costco in Fountain Valley and in Tustin, but none in Santa Ana. Within a short drive of my home in HB, there is a Costco, WalMart, and two Targets.
So indirectly there are many inconveniences that SA residents have to face regardless of where they live. For some these are minor hassles, but for most OC residents these are things that they typically do not have to face or would not tolerate.
Hrm. I definitely get a sense of what you are trying to say, and there are a lot of amenities I have where I live now that I take for granted (including proximity and variety of retail, plenty of parks, places to go running etc). Personally, I wouldn't live in the central parts of Santa Ana for the reasons you listed. I did try doing apartment searches in the past in those areas, and while they were rather affordable, I didn't find one that was up to par. Overcrowding appears to be the norm in those areas.
Then again, I still think that it is very dependent of where you live in Santa Ana. A good friend of mine lives near 17th and Tustin, and he has everything he needs in terms of shopping (Albertsons, Sprouts and Superior for groceries; Target around the corner; Gold's Gym and LA Fitness a short walk/run away; plenty of food options both on the Santa Ana and Tustin sides) and amenities (central access to freeways, short drive up Newport to Santiago and the canyon areas for hiking). This guy was raised in Irvine, so he knows the area pretty well, and what safety looks like, and he has no complaints. In fact, I believe his place is a condo, so it is definitely a long term investment he is making in the area.
The best parts of Santa Ana are the fringes that border other cities. Which I guess does say something about the city itself. When I lived in Floral park, the Outlets where like a 5 minute drive, not to mention Mainplace. The area of Santa Ana touching South Coast has its advantages as well (cheaper rents, lots of amenities).
Why is this a surprise to anyone? Its no secret Santa Ana is one of the absolute worst cities in OC (if not THE worst) when it comes to just about everything. The housing prices reflect that. Don't bother arguing with Rudy, he has always staunchly defended that garbage wasteland like its actually a somewhat desirable place to live
How many years did you live in Santa Ana?
Can you describe the ten nicest neighborhoods in the City?
Which Santa Ana schools are in the top ten in Orange County?
Do you really know anything at all about the city, or are you just repeating water cooler gossip?
ColdJensen, first and foremost welcome back to commenting in this forum. It seems it has been awhile since you have posted here. I appreciate your enthusiasm towards Santa Ana and for the most part agree with your perspective. However, I disagree to some extent with your comments quoted above.
No question, Santa Ana has more urban attributes than any other community in OC. Unfortunately, most of these attributes present the city in a negative light that far out-weight any positive benefits that the city may provide. It is one of the top five densest cities in the U.S. Over 40% the households experience severe to moderate overcrowding where there is an average more than one person per room occupying the home. With all those folks concentrated in pockets throughout the city, there is an tremendous strain on the entire city's infrastructure from roads to sewers to public services. Along with the density, Santa Ana has the highest poverty rate (double the county's average) and a median household income 3 standard deviations below the overall county. Thus, the city struggles to maintain its infrastructure from lack of sufficient tax revenue. In addition, there is large inventory of buildings that need to be upgraded or replaced that gives the city a overall rundown appearance, even with all the new construction that has taken place since the 1980's. Santa Ana Blvd off the 5 Frwy, "the Gateway to the Downtown," still has a junky feel to it as enter downtown, even with all the new condos and homes that have recently been built.
Like it has been mentioned, there are some great neighborhoods. But there are also many not so great areas, that pull down the city's overall image. And even if you live in one of those great neighborhoods, you still are going to be negatively impacted from these other areas. It is true that if you held up Santa Ana to other 300K population cities, it might hold its own pretty well. However people who live in OC are going to rightfully judge it's quality of life to the other 33 cities in this tremendous county. And therefore, only a very small percentage of those with the means live elsewhere would choose the benefits of Santa Ana over it's cost in aggravation, inconvenience and safety. People may convene these thoughts in racist terms, but nevertheless this is the underlying issue.
Statistics and real life tell two different stories. Yes many households are overcrowded, but more are not overcrowded. Many of our neighbors had/have two people for three for four bedrooms. One has one person for six bedrooms. That is not overcrowded. Other places have more. There was one apartment with 24 people living in a one bedroom. (Yes, it happens, they slept in shifts). However that is unusual and extreme. Some of the overcrowding was weird to us, but it did not hurt us any. Crowded does not necessarily equal bad. New York is crowded, but lots of people love it there. Although it is "crowded" it is not as cramped as newer cities. We and our neighbors had bigger lots and more trees than any of our friends in Irvine, M.V. Coto etc.
There is no serious trouble with infrastructure. Sewers are not backing up into homes. Water is clean. There are some roads that need work, but I always liked that, it slowed down the kids and immature/impatient drivers. the concept the new construction makes a city better is a matter of opinion. To me the newer Orange County cities are some of the most mind numbingly dull places in the world. If you like character, it is a nice place. If you like conformity it is awful.
How are you going to be impacted by less nice neighborhoods elsewhere in the city? Are the rest of Orange County negatively impacted by those "bad areas"? or does the negative impact suddenly stop at city borders?
Yes the Orange County suburbs have lower crime statistics, but that is all relative. In part it depends on using common sense. We encountered more crime when we lived in Newport beach and in Orange than we did in Santa Ana. Although we witnesses more crime in Santa Ana if you count drug deals and prostitution (however we saw a lot of drug deals in Newport Beach too - that may be a toss up).
I will agree with you that many of the newer infill projects look awful and out of place. All too often people get caught up i the mantra that new is somehow better and tear down quality architecture to replace it with temporary garbage with nothing of any merit whatsoever other than being new. It is frustrating to see that happen in town after town (Anaheim completely destroyed their downtown because of this). Perfect? no. However Santa Ana is the best downtown we have in Orange County, because it is the only downtown. You cannot compare an urban downtown to a suburb of nearly identical homes with manicured lawns and bike trails. It is like comparing chicken soup to a hammer. which is better?
The big difference is Santa Ana is a city. the rest of Orange County is pretty much suburbs. Yes. Santa Ana is not a good choice for those who want to live the suburb lifestyle and most of the rest of Orange County is a poor choice for those who want city living.
Santa Ana is not for everyone. It is not for those who make decisions on statistics, or water cooler gossip or prejudice. It is not for those who value conformity or who fear new experiences and differences in culture. Those who prefer boring to challenging should stay away.
Santa Ana is certainly not perfect, but if you are not the jump on the bandwagon, conformity desiring type, it is one of the four best places you can live in Orange COunty.
In another example, I went to Sandpointe Park one weekend summer afternoon to enjoy some recreation with my kids and there was a gentleman laying on a picnic table wearing only his underwear.
In city of 300K plus, there is only one Vons, and one Ralphs Supermarkets. There is only one fitness center to the best of my knowledge (LA Fitness). There is a Costco in Fountain Valley and in Tustin, but none in Santa Ana. Within a short drive of my home in HB, there is a Costco, WalMart, and two Targets.
So indirectly there are many inconveniences that SA residents have to face regardless of where they live. For some these are minor hassles, but for most OC residents these are things that they typically do not have to face or would not tolerate.
Where else in Orange county can you get a treat like that?? (Well maybe in Balboa or Laguna, but not too many places). Did the guy in his underwear harm you? Were your kids damaged? Have they not seen a Sears catalogue or visited Abercrombie & Fitch? Seeing things that are different or even wierd is part of life, it adds flavor.
Is there some need for nearby giant chain supermarkets to enjoy life? Do they have to be in the same city? We could walk to Northgate Market which is a fine nid-sized market, as well as a small local market right at the edge of our neighborhood. A long walk brought us to Target, Superior Market, Stater Brothers or Food For less. Albertsons was within a mile or two. Another, I forget which was nearby on 1st street. Pretty much any market is available within three or four miles. Costco twelve minutes away. Home Depot ten or fifteen depending on which one. Orchard Supply Hardware was 5 minutes away and a local small hardware with friendly helpful people was within walking distance. A major shopping mall (Main Place) was in walking or bicycle distance, and South Coast Plaza was a longer bike ride or short drive away. For some big box stores, you may have to cross into an adjoining town, but they are allowing that now. There are not even gates or checkpoints. I could drive to Orange in about two minutes and to Tustin in five. Irvine ten minutes, Garden Grove three or four, Costa Mesa five to ten (to the edge, not the beach), Anaheim in ten, Fullerton in fifteen. Nothing is far away. If we needed something that was not local, since we were at the confluence of three major freeways, everything is very accessible.
I could walk to over 25 restaurants, about 100 shops, a barbershop, three live theater locations, two museums, six nightclubs, and a dozen or more churches. I was also able to walk to work. Plus I could greet neighbors and look at cool architecture the entire way. How many people in OC can do that?
Oh and we also walked to the train station which was an easy and pleasant way to get to Los Angeles, San Celemente, San Diego, or even Irvine if you wanted to go there for some reason. Try that form Huntington Beach, it would be along long walk.
The real creme though was we could afford a good sized 1893 Victorian home on a sizable lot with mature trees and mostly nice neighbors. Oh and our kids could walk to OCHSA, usually one of the top 5 high schools in Orange County (they also have a jr high).
So yes, I disagree with your assessment of Santa Ana life. I cannot think of anywhere else in OC you can live like that.
The Fairhaven/Portola Park neighborhood at the northeast corner and bordering Tustin is mostly pretty nice. Has one of the better elementary schools in the city and quick access to every kind of shopping and restaurants you need. Downtown is also a short bike ride or moderate walk away.
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