OC is a suburb? (Los Angeles, San Diego: home, bankruptcy, college)

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by Hawaii4evr

It is suburban. It's gotten much more dense than suburbs in, say, Texas or South Florida, due to demand, and thus has more to offer. But it isn't urban, and certainly ain't small town or rural.

Yeah, it's much denser than suburban TX, because CA has higher housing costs and less land for development, but still suburban.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Even Anaheim and the like feel super suburban.

Really? When is the last time you have seen a major league baseball stadium, an arena with a pro hockey team, a state of the art transit center with shopping and dining, Disneyland, a huge convention center, high-rises, a big outdoor shopping mall and a ton of hotels all located within a few square miles in the suburbs? lol Just the fact that Anaheim has a population of 330k with well over 6k people per square mile classifies it as urban according to the Dept of defense and the US Census Bureau. Just because its not laid out like downtown NYC doesn't mean it isn't urban. A good comparison to Anaheim would be Arlington TX. Pro baseball, football, a major amusement park, big shopping mall etc...however, Arlington is twice as big as Anaheim (99 square miles vs 50 square miles) much more spread out, and only half the people per square mile. The size of Arlington and the way its spread out is much more characteristic of a suburb than the smaller, more built up and more dense Anaheim.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Really? When is the last time you have seen a major league baseball stadium, an arena with a pro hockey team, a state of the art transit center with shopping and dining, Disneyland, a huge convention center, high-rises, a big outdoor shopping mall and a ton of hotels all located within a few square miles in the suburbs?

Uh, plenty of times?

Disneyworld and pretty much all the Disney parks are in suburban areas. You generally don't build theme parks in dense urban areas.

Probably most sports stadia around the world are in suburban areas. The most valuable sports team in the U.S., the Cowboys, plays in the suburbs. The most valuable sports team in Europe, Manchester United, plays in the suburbs.

There are plenty of "state of the art transit centers" in suburban areas, as I'm sure you're well aware. I don't even know what you're referring to, as Anaheim is super auto-oriented, and has pretty horrible transit coverage.

Convention centers are quite often in suburban areas.

Anahaim has very few highrises, and highrises are often in suburban areas. Around the world, there are probably more highrises overall in suburbs than in city centers. Often city centers are protected from highrise development, especially in Europe and Latin America.

"Big outdoor shopping malls" are probably 99% in the suburbs. You can hardly get more suburban than "big outdoor shopping malls" (and I have no idea what you're even talking about, as there is no such megamall in Anaheim).

Originally Posted by mbell75

Just the fact that Anaheim has a population of 330k with well over 6k people per square mile classifies it as urban according to the Dept of defense and the US Census Bureau.

Actually, no, you just made that up. The Census Bureau and Department of Defense have no such definition.

And 6k people per mile is very low density, not high density, especially in Southern CA where lot sizes are small and immigrants stuff multi-generations into little homes (esp. in cheaper places like Anaheim).

Originally Posted by mbell75

Just because its not laid out like downtown NYC doesn't mean it isn't urban.

Actually, yeah, if a city isn't remotely similar to a big, important city, then that's a pretty good hint that it isn't urban. Anahaim is basically the polar opposite of NYC.

Originally Posted by mbell75

A good comparison to Anaheim would be Arlington TX.

And Arlington, TX could hardly be more suburban. It's basically a Texas Anaheim.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Actually, no, you just made that up. The Census Bureau and Department of Defense have no such definition

Actually yes, you need to do some research...

https://www.census.gov/geo/reference...ural-2010.html

To qualify as an urban area, the territory identified according to criteria must encompass at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters. Urbanized Areas (UAs) of 50,000 or more people


The classification is based on how a government agency defines it (some agencies define the terms differently). Primarily there are three factors: population density (people per square mile), distance from nearest city, and/or size of the nearest city (urban and suburban areas extend farther for larger cities).

Early on, the Department of Defense had established the following designations for a ZIP Code:

- Urban: 3,000+ persons per square mile
- Suburban: 1,000 ‐ 3,000 persons per square mile
- Rural: less than 1,000 persons per square mile

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Anahaim has very few highrises

Again, you need to do some research. A high-rise is any building at least 75 feet tall. There are well over a dozen in the Disneyland area alone. Last time I counted, I believe I got 31.

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Actually yes, you need to do some research...

https://www.census.gov/geo/reference...ural-2010.html

To qualify as an urban area, the territory identified according to criteria must encompass at least 2,500 people, at least 1,500 of which reside outside institutional group quarters. Urbanized Areas (UAs) of 50,000 or more people

Again, no, you are making up stuff.

You just posted the Census definition for defining metro area boundaries by the term "urbanized area". It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a city is urban, unless you think every single suburb in the U.S. is actually urban, because they are part of larger metro areas.

You are basically saying that there is no such thing as "suburban". That's your larger point. Everything not completely rural has to be urban going by your definition, even if we're talking farms or 10-acre homesteads or something.

The rest of your stuff about zip codes and the department of defense is nonsensical, off topic, and not worth responding too.

Originally Posted by mbell75

Again, you need to do some research. A high-rise is any building at least 75 feet tall. There are well over a dozen in the Disneyland area alone. Last time I counted, I believe I got 31.

Again, you're making up stuff. There is no official definition of highrise, you just created one.

And highrises have nothing to do with urbanity; I don't care if there are 3,000 highrises in Anaheim, it isn't urban. Highrises, if anything, are probably anti-urban overall, unless they're built Manhattan-style, with no parking or setbacks, which is pretty rare in the world. The most urban places in the world tend to have few highrises.

[HyperionGap]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Again, no, you are making up stuff.

You just posted the Census definition for defining metro area boundaries by the term "urbanized area". It has absolutely nothing to do with whether a city is urban, unless you think every single suburb in the U.S. is actually urban, because they are part of larger metro areas.

You are basically saying that there is no such thing as "suburban". That's your larger point. Everything not completely rural has to be urban going by your definition, even if we're talking farms or 10-acre homesteads or something.

The rest of your stuff about zip codes and the department of defense is nonsensical, off topic, and not worth responding too.


Again, you're making up stuff. There is no official definition of highrise, you just created one.

And highrises have nothing to do with urbanity; I don't care if there are 3,000 highrises in Anaheim, it isn't urban. Highrises, if anything, are probably anti-urban overall, unless they're built Manhattan-style, with no parking or setbacks, which is pretty rare in the world. The most urban places in the world tend to have few highrises.

I tried explaining the difference between "urbanized area" and "urban" but it just was a waste of time.

No matter how many people tell the little boy he's wrong, he just puts his fingers in his ears and spouts his garbage repeatedly. I honestly don't think there is a more ignorant poster on this entire forum, and that's really saying something. However, it's quite amusing to watch him embarrass himself over and over. Sort of like going to the zoo.

[Urban Planner]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

Orange County is obviously suburban. It's pretty much the textbook definition of suburbia. Tract housing, postwar boom, chain store mania, planned communities, suburban bubble, etc.

Exactly. Just watch out, some peeps on here feel like OC is New York City or San Francisco when they themselves live in a 2,000 sq ft home on a 8,000 sq ft lot.

[dexter14]

Originally Posted by NOLA101

You are basically saying that there is no such thing as "suburban". That's your larger point. Everything not completely rural has to be urban going by your definition, even if we're talking farms or 10-acre homesteads or something.

Not what Im saying at all, of course there are suburbs, but a city like Anaheim is not one. A city like San Juan Capistrano for instance. Only 34k people and around 2,400 people per square mile. Very few apartment buildings, mostly large homes spread out across the city, very little in the way of public transportation, very few highways, only one main shopping area...THAT is suburban. If you can't see the difference between a city like SJC and Anaheim, I don't know what to tell you lol

[NOLA101]

Originally Posted by mbell75

Not what Im saying at all, of course there are suburbs, but a city like Anaheim is not one. A city like San Juan Capistrano for instance. Only 34k people and around 2,400 people per square mile.

Nope. SJC is part of the urbanized area, so is urban, according to your criteria. Exurban Tulsa is urban. 50 miles outside of Detroit is urban. All these areas meet the technical Census definition, so, according to you, are urban, and should be classified the same as Tokyo and NYC even if we're talking a few farms and trailer parks.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

I'll say that Anaheim (sans Hills) and Santa Ana aren't suburbs. The rest of it is.

80% of that list were small towns that are commutable to larger cities, and 90% of those were in the Midwest, with a disproportionate amount in Ohio.

It's all in how you slice it. Very few of OC's residents live in anything that could be classified as "urban" on the micro scale. Basically having a garage would classify you as "not urban".

It could be argued however that Anaheim could be considered a suburb. I mean, the Rams and Angels want/ed nothing to do with the Anaheim name. The Texas Rangers play in a very Anaheim-like city, one that could be considered a bridge suburb between D and FW. The Braves are moving to the suburbs. The Pistons play in the suburbs. As do the football Giants, Jets, Patriots, Bills, Redskins, Dolphins, 49ers, and Cardinals. The hockey Panthers, Coyotes, and Islanders too.

I agree, I never feel urban in Laguna, no way. It's like suburbia right out of a movie.