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Money does not buy you or guarantee you class. Class when used in it's proper form should mean moral fiber, manners, etiquette & compassion. The proper term for spending lots of money is more likely CASTE. I have met people from all over and I have learned possessions, big cars and mansions can still be owned by small petty people. That's not to say people with money are all bad, at the end of the day it's not the "what" that defines a person, it's the "who" <hops off my soapbox now>
Newport and Laguna have an upper-class presence that is lacking in the other areas you mentioned which are just middle-class (with the possible exception of Anaheim hills) and filled with McMansions. I'm not sure I would make it a coastal vs inland issue, but its pretty clear that the majority of the inland communities are built to make the middle-class feel wealthy by mimicking the life-style in more upper-class regions (often on the coast).
Also where did you get your income stats? I'm finding much different values, but they show the same thing. The incomes aren't very different in these areas. But I have to say income is a very middle-class measure of class, it only works when comparing different middle-class communities. The people that are truly rich know better than to have a high income, they are rich because they are wealthy (own assets) and not because their yearly income is high. Many people that are worth 10+ million only let 150k or so to be realized as "income", when you own your house, cars etc that ends up being a lot of play money.
Also, just from walking around in Laguna Beach vs Yorba Linda the difference is pretty obvious.
They are different because in Yorba Linda/Anaheim Hills/Villa Park (where the people are wealthier as a whole than Newport Beach/Laguna Beach/Dana Point) because people in YL and AH realize that why have a Porshe when a BMW, or a less expensive luxury car does just fine. They would trade a smashed together beachfront cottage for a nice hillside home with plenty of land and great views. It is more humble wealth, which gives it the impression of not being very wealthy at all.
As a resident of Newport Beach and a former resident of Anaheim Hills, I can tell you that many of my neighbors are putting on an act of wealth. They live in rented homes, and you just know they are struggling to make ends meet because of the jobs they have. They never take vacations, and their kids dont drive nice cars, if they have cars at all. In my old Anaheim Hills neighborhood, most of those people have been established in dignified carreers for 30 or more years, have children, and choose to spend their money on vacations instead of the material things. Now, of course there are those who break this mold, but its a fairly accurate generalization.
And your theory about "realize income" is stupid. Both areas of people probably have their own assets as well as an annual income. Anaheim Hills/Yorba Linda/Villa Park are well known for being an area of "old money" with more conservative people, so its there, if anything, where the true financial worth of a person is likely to be higher than their income. Newport/Laguna/Dana are all new money cities where people are young and successful and dont have a significant stash, but have been lucky on their own. Your point of this "hidden income" skewing Laguna/Newport/Dana's income does not work because of the demography of the area. It is probably more true in AH/YL/VP.
And both areas are distinct. The beach is nice, but some people find large estates and tennis courts better. Its all about the preference of the people. People on the coast think that EVERYBODY desires to live at the coast, which is NOT true. I am sure most AH/YL/VP residents could afford to live by the beach, but have they moved there? I think not.
And you call inland areas filled with McMansions instead of real luxury homes. The average size home in Newport Beach is 1,391 square feet, in Yorba Linda its 2,189. I wouldn't call a 1300 square foot home a Mansion or even a McMansion.
The only thing I do not agree with you on is that we all wish we were "Newport" people.
When people make generalizations like this they are of course considering that not everyone acts like this.
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My family is upper middle class. My husband makes a substancial salary as a CEO and we could sell our home and move to Newport in a heart beat.
No offense, but this comment indicates that you aren't part of the upper-class. You just keep talking about income, income has nothing to do with it. As far as money goes the issue is wealth, but money is just a part of it. You can make $200k a year and still have little to no wealth. Anyhow there is nothing wrong with the middle-class, but you are pretty much confirming what I'm saying. Orange county is filled with people that are middle-class, but like to think otherwise. Being a doctor or having some other high playing job does not not magically make you "upper-class", in fact I would say just the act of having a job is a good indicator that you aren't.
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If everyone was so sulky and wanted to be at the coast like you claim, then I don't think this statistic would be so high.
I didn't claim this, I claimed that the upper-class regions of California are primarily on the coast and that the people in inland Orange country like to think they are upper-class (yourself included...), but are rather middle-class. Whereas the people in middle-class regions of LA, Ventura county etc don't have the same issues (at least on the same scale).
because people in YL and AH realize that why have a Porshe when a BMW, or a less expensive luxury car does just fine.
Just to note that BMW are targeted at the middle-class and nobody in the upper-class would be caught dead in one. Also, Porshe as in the traditionally porche:
Is a novelty car and can't be compared to "luxury car" really. Anyhow, the upper-class buy cars that are Veblen goods, crap like BMWs don't even come into the picture, instead Rolls-Royce, Bentley and things of that nature.
But I know the whole "millionaire next" store image is popular.
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where the people are wealthier as a whole than Newport Beach/Laguna Beach/Dana Point
Honestly, we can only guess which area is wealthier as the information needed to determine this isn't published as far as I know.
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And your theory about "realize income" is stupid.
What is stupid about the fact that you can't determine how wealthy an area is by the median income because the wealthy do not necessarily realize their wealth as income on a yearly basis.
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Your point of this "hidden income" skewing Laguna/Newport/Dana's income does not work because of the demography of the area. It is probably more true in AH/YL/VP.
Its not hidden income, the issue is wealth. We can all guess at which area in Orange county has the most wealth, but we are just guessing. I don't think YL is such an area, but I said previously that AH may be. I honestly can't really say much about VP, haven't spent much time there. My claim had nothing to do with inland vs coastal though. Also, all these areas are rather new so bringing up "old money" is a bit odd, save that for the east coast.
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And you call inland areas filled with McMansions instead of real luxury homes.
Orange county has a lot of normal track homes built in the 70's and 80's, but a lot of the development during the 90's and 00's has been McMansions. The number of new McMansion developments over the last 8 years has been rather huge. McMansions are purchased by the exact sort of people I'm talking about - middle-class that what to think they are upper-class.
OK, so the coast has a lot of money. You win, it does. You are the expert on wealthy people too. You know everything about wealthy people. I bet you spend all day hanging out with rich yuppies from Beverly Hills and Newport Beach. I bet they really like the classy "Fart Master" because he understands them so much. He is the voice of the upper class and is here to communicate how they live to other people.
And just so you know, I never said I was upper class (as in rich). I said upper MIDDLE CLASS. That does exist you know. We do just fine and do not claim to be rich, just people that are financially responsible and enjoy life. We can afford nice cars, a motor home, vacations, have money set aside for college, etc... This doesn't make us RICH, but we enjoy life. I don't know what your finances are, but you sure talk about middle class people like they are plebeians, that is what is most annoying. Not even my evil brother in law is that cocky
Last edited by missionhome; 05-26-2008 at 06:24 PM..
Just to note that BMW are targeted at the middle-class and nobody in the upper-class would be caught dead in one. Also, Porshe as in the traditionally porche:
Is a novelty car and can't be compared to "luxury car" really. Anyhow, the upper-class buy cars that are Veblen goods, crap like BMWs don't even come into the picture, instead Rolls-Royce, Bentley and things of that nature.
But I know the whole "millionaire next" store image is popular.
Just to point out your "I know all" attitude about rich people. A LOT of rich people are perfectly content driving Mercedes Benz, Lexus, or BMWs. A Ferrari sure sticks out a lot in a parking lot and draws a lot of attention, even in rich areas. There are a lot of rich people that prefer to blend in more and drive a BMW 7 series as opposed to a Rolls-Royce.
For example, Bill Gates has a lot of cars, but what does he drive daily? A Lexus LS430. Not really an "exotic" if you ask me. He also still has his 1999 (yes it is older), Porshe 911. Warren Buffet drive a Cadillac DTS, yes a Cadillac. Paul Allen (Microsoft Co-Founder) has a Porshe, but prefers to drive his 1988 Mazda B series pickup truck during the week. Michael Dell drives a Hummer H2. Jim Walton, owner of Walmart, drives a 2002 Dodge Dakota, 1998 Mitsubishi Montero, 2000 Acura Integra, and 1999 Chevy Silverado. Steven Ballmer drives a 1998 Lincoln Continental. What does Sergey Brin drive? A Toyota Prius.
Then again, like you said, maybe this is urban myth, because NOBODY in the upper class would be caught in one.
Last edited by missionhome; 05-26-2008 at 06:20 PM..
Just to point out your "I know all" attitude about rich people. A LOT of rich people are perfectly content driving Mercedes Benz, Lexus, or BMWs. A Ferrari sure sticks out a lot in a parking lot and draws a lot of attention, even in rich areas. There are a lot of rich people that prefer to blend in more and drive a BMW 7 series as opposed to a Rolls-Royce.
For example, Bill Gates has a lot of cars, but what does he drive daily? A Lexus LS430. Not really an "exotic" if you ask me.
Great point. The definition of what makes you wealthy differs from place to place. People in Newport define wealth as nice cars, and spending everything on the here and now. But how many of them have money to back them up for a rainy day? How many really will be able to retire comfortably? That is the difference between Newport and the "inland wealth" is that inland people dont spen their money on extravagant things (except for manybe their home) but are VERY financially secure.
What do I win? It would help if this was even my claim, you should give the prize to the other guy.
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I said upper MIDDLE CLASS. That does exist you know.
You did, I apologize I misread what you typed. But, there really isn't any difference between "middle-class" and "upper middle-class" except income, so sociologically its not a very interesting distinction.
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I don't know what your finances are,
Still that focus on finances = /
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but you sure talk about middle class people like they are plebeians, that is what is most annoying.
Unfortunately you can't talk about social class without offending people, but I'm not trying to degrade you or anybody else. I'm just talking about how I see Orange County, in particular south orange county. It is filled with middle-class that seem to have been injected with an extra dose of class envy. Honestly its sort of funny the things seen in Orange Country are right out of a classic text in economics:
I like the "Millionaire Next Door" view on what being wealthy means. There's a neat formula for whay your target net worth should be.
Multiply your age times your realized pretax annual household income from all sources except inheritances. Divide by ten. This, less any inherited wealth, is what your net worth should be.
or
Your target net worth should be Age * Annual pretax income/10
So, for a 30 year old making $50K, his target net worth should be $150K.
The book also mentions that the number 1 vehicle driven by millionaires is the F-150. I drive a POS 1998 F-150 and I get bummed out when I see someone driving an even bigger POS than I am driving. I hate to think someone is cheaper than I am.
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