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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Unless I way miss my guess, I doubt the landlords posting in this thread have been doing low income renters any favors over the years. As usual they see the scam potential in every regulation proposed in the name of Fair Housing. What does "low income" even have to do with it? I am not low income but I have pets. A recent property manager actually told us about the companion animal exception because she wanted us to be able to rent a vacancy. The place we have now was listed as no pets. As it happens the cat we have now was obtained mainly as company for an older cat that died this year. We could have re-homed him with minimal guilt and so we looked at this rental and liked it. Just for grins I mentioned the cat and after a few hours deliberation we got the go ahead, with a deposit, of course.
Why not triple the rent and select from the cream of millenial tech savants that are entering the 3% above market rent sectors? Is it because you can't? Because no one will pay that kind of rent to live in your one of a kind palatial suites? I am insulted on behalf of working class renters who want to pay a fair rent for what is offered in the way of neighborhood environment, fit and finish of the premises and customer service.
Maybe its best that some of you sell off and do something else less risky with your housing bubble equity. I doubt huge numbers of renters are going to crash the rental market by destroying housing stock left and right with out of control Pit Bulls waltzed in past the frustrated gaze of furious but helpless to prevent it, landlords.
I haven't seen this much alarmist nonsense in... ... ever. WTH. The sky is falling...
Well said!
Furthermore... more dogs and cats will have a warm home, not the cold street or cage at the Humane Society...what a tragedy for the landlords!! The sky is falling indeed..
Unless I way miss my guess, I doubt the landlords posting in this thread have been doing low income renters any favors over the years.
Funny you should say that. Just over a year ago, we rented a duplex unit to someone who was having difficulty finding somewhere to rent. She seemed a genuine person, just someone who had had some bad luck. She had a verifiable just, decent references but couldn't afford the full rent and a full deposit. We were doing pretty well so we decided to rent to her.
Fast forward a year. We're in the area so we pay a visit. There's 6 people living in a 2 bed unit. There's garbage everywhere over the lot. There was holes all over the lawn, a motor cycle engine leaking oil all over the living room, the fence was busted, the gate was missing and there were holes in various interior walls. Bear in mind, we''d fixed this place up before renting it.
We had her evicted and my wife is staying there, getting it fixed up for a new tenant. However, the evicted renter's son keeps showing up at all hours, making various threats. The latest is that his "gang" are going to be around later to "take care of her." She's waiting at the moment for the police to show up.
So in summary, don't try to lay some guilt trip regarding landlords and their evil, money grubbing ways. These properties are our life times investment and are what is going to provide our retirement. At this time, I'd rather sell the damn lot of them and put the money in some safe government bonds or something of a similar ilk.
This may not be new news for the landlords here so I'll make it short.
My wife and I went to a metro fair housing conference this morning.
Effective Immediately! People with "service animals" are a protected class.
Now, before you say "No ish Sherlock." The way the regulation is worded and here it is verbatim is absolutely unbelievable.
"Under Oregon Fair housing law the "assistance animal" does not need to be a certified and/or trained service animal; it may also be a "companion.," "Therapy," "Emotional Support," or "Comfort animal"
That is already b.s., but the part that really gets me. "It is illegal to charge a deposit or a fee for an assistance animal."
It gets worse. "You may restrict breeds/species and animals by weight but a tenant may have a service"assistance animal" larger than your weight limit or a breed you don't ordinarily permit."
Now before you say, I don't see the problem. Here is the problem: This just opened up a pandroas box. Every yokel who wants a pet can get one by simply claiming they have a need for some sort of companion animal and we can no longer restrict the breed or charge them any deposit fee. All I can say is wow... I have no problem with a trained service animal.. but come on. This companion animal crap is getting out of hand.
Now, it states that these animals have to be prescribed by a physician but we all know that means. "My dad touched me and get scared at night, I need my Stafforshire Terrier to be my companion animal" "Okay, I'm convinced, here's your prescription"
So I asked the lady at Fair housing 5 questions:
1. What about insurance liability for dangerous breeds?
A: "The tenant is responsible".... riiiiggghhhhhttttt, yeah they will be responsible, I bet.
You can make the tenant get insurance coverage. List yourself as "interested party" ( Rabritta gets credit here for explaining this indepth to me) they get insurance and try and cancel it, bam you get notified. The insurance must be in effect before they take posession.
2. How do we know If Doctor "I.P Freely" is legit? I can make a pretty convincing b.s. letter head and prescription.
A: "That's on the landlord to figure out." All real doctors are licensed by a medical board
3. And what if I don't think the letter is legitimate but can't prove it?
A: "Well the tenant can have us advocate for them."
4. So you are saying you can eventually force me to accept a bogus letter with out any due process?
A: <stutter> We e ll um, we will work with both parties to resolve the conflict.
5. What if the tenant all of a sudden has a "PTSD" episode and gets a companion letter?Then is the pet rent or deposit banned retroactively or can I pro rate it?
A: Um, I'm not sure.
Any others know about this? Oregonwoodsmoke has to know about this. Is it as much of a Pandoras Box as I believe it will become? Am I overreacting. Any landlords have people claim companion animal recently?
There was even more ridiculous stuff like kids toys on the porch and in the yard, we can't even use the words child, young, youngster, adult or children in our contracts anymore.
Any small ops landlords thinking, hm, maybe my next property will be in Washington? Or maybe thinking of selling. I'm thinking of selling. The laws have already changed so much since 2012. Where are they heading next? No income restrictions? employment impaired people or fiduciary handicapped people are a protected class too. You have to rent your 2500/mo house out to the people who barely make 2000 a month? I mean that sounds ridiculous but its almost already like that in multifamily dwellings.
What is the Oregon law on losing insurance coverage due to dangerous breeds? If you can't get insurance they can't have the dog on premises. You can prove undue hardship at that point
Can you make a renters insurance policy a requirement and can you set the amount? Do that across the board and its not discrimination. Look up interested party on a policy.
What are the maximum security deposit you can legally charge? Start charging that up front. You just want to cover damages done by tenant their guests or pets.
Do only month to month lease agreements
In my experience every tenant with a pet simply tells me they have a pet. I can choose to rent or not to rent to them. My problem is not with people and their pets. My issue is when they leave but don't want to be held responsible for the damages the pets caused. see nothing is ever a problem until someone has to pay for the repair
Last edited by Electrician4you; 01-16-2015 at 06:36 PM..
Thank you for your advice. I had to do some research.
As of 2013 you could not require residents to carry renters ins. After research it appears that as of Jan 1 I can require it as long as the family makes above the median income for the family size. Anyone under median income is exempt.
We can set the amount up to $50k but no higher. I had an in-depth conversation with my wife and she says it's already setup like that, but $50k is pretty low.
I can and do charge 2 months for move-in. it's $2,800. My current tenants are on month to month. But if when they leave I will likely go month to month. Do you find month to month or contract is better. Turning over every 2 or 3 months would be very costly.
I think my problem is that I did so much to upgrade that home that I can't let go of it. I was there a year ago, and all the landscaping I did in the backyard is destroyed, The grass is... gone, it's a big mud pit. Dogs + rain = no grass. There were so many broken things on my tour. My front door has a metal bald patch on it and the weather stripping is all ripped up from their cat pawing to get in. The house smelled very wet doggish and cat litery, and that may be a hard smell that I cant get out. They put a big kids pool out in the front yard and the grass never recovered. The house was pretty messy, even though they knew I was coming. I can't imagine what it looks like on a regular basis. And the thing is they have been good renters, so I can't imagaine what will happen if I get some...jerky people in there. A friend sent me a picture of one of his utterly destroyed rental house. Now I understand why so many landlords are slum lords. They just don't want to invest in something that will be destroyed later.
Thank you for your advice. I had to do some research.
As of 2013 you could not require residents to carry renters ins. After research it appears that as of Jan 1 I can require it as long as the family makes above the median income for the family size. Anyone under median income is exempt.
We can set the amount up to $50k but no higher. I had an in-depth conversation with my wife and she says it's already setup like that, but $50k is pretty low.
I can and do charge 2 months for move-in. it's $2,800. My current tenants are on month to month. But if when they leave I will likely go month to month. Do you find month to month or contract is better. Turning over every 2 or 3 months would be very costly.
We have been fairly lucky. A few good apples turned bad but they were 1 year leases that converted to month to month anyway by that time. What I do on our MTM rentals I write in a 12 month guarantee no rent raise. I found that most people are worried about moving in and getting their rent jacked up on a MTM. But we have two properties that tend to have about two year turnover. I've also had a few times where he tenant wants to move out and roomate wants to stay and has a friend move in. I do BG check, yay or nay. If yay I just redo the lease as a MTM. It's easier on everyone. I don't want to keep anyone in a rental they don't want to be in. This allows me the flexibility that if I get too many complaints I can do something faster. But like I said ALL the potential tenants get screened and if there is something that doesn't pass they get denied.
If there is something that bothers me I talk to the tenants. I'm not big on the heavy hand. Doesn't mean I can't do it. But I only had to get heavy handed three times in 20 years. For the most part speaking to someone usually does it. If it continues then I start doing the quits and notices.
I think my problem is that I did so much to upgrade that home that I can't let go of it. I was there a year ago, and all the landscaping I did in the backyard is destroyed, The grass is... gone, it's a big mud pit. Dogs + rain = no grass. There were so many broken things on my tour. My front door has a metal bald patch on it and the weather stripping is all ripped up from their cat pawing to get in. The house smelled very wet doggish and cat litery, and that may be a hard smell that I cant get out. They put a big kids pool out in the front yard and the grass never recovered. The house was pretty messy, even though they knew I was coming. I can't imagine what it looks like on a regular basis. And the thing is they have been good renters, so I can't imagaine what will happen if I get some...jerky people in there. A friend sent me a picture of one of his utterly destroyed rental house. Now I understand why so many landlords are slum lords. They just don't want to invest in something that will be destroyed later.
Understandable. I had a similar thing. All I can tell you is once a rental you gotta let it go. You need to see it as a business investment. Sometimes you get crap bags sometimes you get diamonds. You must screen screen screen. The best way to get someone who is bad out is by keeping them out in the first place.
Set some screening rules and don't bend them.
I had a rental with a tenant who just demolished it. Cats dogs, holes punched in walls, friends living there, trash everywhere. ( but ALL my fault for simply letting it go on. Sure they did it but I allowed it) It cost 3k just to do the demo. New cabinetry flooring walls etc and pretty soon you're looking at a hugr chunk of cash leaving your pocket. And when I say demo it was to the point where it was gutted to studs and completely redone. There was nothing I could salvage. But it's just part of the risk. I'm not trying to be nonchalant about it. If you are having that much of a issue letting go, seriously get out. Fix it sell it and invest the money in a annuity or mutual fund, money market etc.
I can tell you that I've done it for about 19 years. You just need to understand that it's a business, don't take it personally and protect yourself.
Lots of those damages are chargeable against their security deposits.
Good luck man. I think you can do it. Just be more selective.
I am no so offended by the service animal issue as I am by the new law that landlords can not reject Section 8 as a source of income, landlords can not reject for felonies older than (6?) years and can not reject for evictions unless they are recent. Sorry, I wrote down the timeline so I don't violate it, but I'm not going to look it up for you.
Does anyone have a link anything official that substantiates these claims, or is this just more false information? I must be doing something wrong, because I've tried to look it up and didn't find it. I did find that landlords can't discriminate against tenants for eviction filings that never resulted in actual orders of evictions, which only seems just, but I can't find anything that says that only recent evictions can be considered. As for criminal history, that issue seems more complex than what's being claimed.
Does anyone have a link anything official that substantiates these claims, or is this just more false information? I must be doing something wrong, because I've tried to look it up and didn't find it. I did find that landlords can't discriminate against tenants for eviction filings that never resulted in actual orders of evictions, which only seems just, but I can't find anything that says that only recent evictions can be considered. As for criminal history, that issue seems more complex than what's being claimed.
By the way, I'm not sure that this is some new thing that has recently become "effective immediately." Hasn't it been around for awhile?
It appears the sky may well be falling. I actually agree with Leiseturm about something.
The Section 8 requirement began in July of 2014 so it is new. It defined Section 8 vouchers as a source of income that can't be discriminated against. So a landlord can't treat a Section 8 voucher applicant as different than other applicants. So it can't be the only reason they are rejected.
As of January 2014 it is illegal to refuse to rent to a tenant because of a previous arrest, certain kinds of criminal convictions, or an eviction that happened more than five years earlier. You can still refuse to rent to convicted sex offenders, drug dealers etc. But lets say someone had a DUI arrest on their record from 6 years ago, you can't refuse to rent based on that anymore.
The service/companion dog issue was redefined by the ADA in 2011, but recently clarified for fair housing laws in 2013.
Thanks. I was referring to the service animal thing as not being new, not Sect. 8. I don't think this means that property owners are obligated to participate in the program? Doesn't that require a lot of red tape and paperwork?
I was mostly questioning the statement about not being able to "reject for felonies unless they are over (6?) years." All I could really find on either of the links about was this:
Quote:
Landlords may still screen tenants for certain crimes, particularly those involving drugs, sex, violence or financial fraud, for example. But, they may not deny an applicant based on an arrest that did not result in a conviction or a charge that was dismissed.
It seems like they're talking about arrests that didn't go anywhere. It just seems reasonable that those shouldn't be held against anyone.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 01-17-2015 at 05:14 PM..
It seems like they're talking about arrests that didn't go anywhere. It just seems reasonable that those shouldn't be held against anyone.
Not quite. You can reject a tenant that has been arrested and convicted for a sex offense, drug offense, offense against a person like assault, and identity theft type crimes. If someone stole a car 6 years ago, was arrested and convicted, you can't use that as a reason to reject their application if it was more than 5 years prior. You can reject for certain crimes (mentioned above) regardless of how long ago they were. You used to be able to reject an application based on criminal history of any kind. Now, they restrict that.
The point of the change was to help people that committed crimes in their youth have an opportunity to get decent housing once they got it together rather than being rejected for a crime they committed 10 years ago, as an example.
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