Oregon Passage of Taxes on Business and High Income Earners (Portland: 2015, credit rating)

[Fiddlehead]

Agreed. This was posted by an Idahoan to stir the pot on creeping socialism. We discussed it over there too. But this topic collapses into ideological rants on more or less government. Noone's mind is changed.

[Larry Caldwell]

The sky will not fall because people have to pay taxes. Before the new tax measure, Oregon was 44th out of 50 states in total tax burden on citizens. After the tax hike, we will move up to 42nd or so. Big whoop. Meanwhile, we stabilized state government services. That's a battle that many states have been putting off. The longer they wait, the worse it will get.

[dlb8685]

I don't see how anyone with a grasp of economics could think this is a good idea. The thing that concerns me the most if the taxing corporations based on revenue, and not profits. That is my understanding of what this bill does, so I want to criticize the two measures with the caveat that if I'm understanding the substance wrong, please correct me.

Is there any kind of cutoff at all to when revenue is taxed and at what rate? Can a business be taxed even if it is breaking even or unprofitable because the tax is based on revenue? Can a marginally profitable business be taxed into unprofitability based on this revenue tax? I'm wondering if the average Oregon voter is even thinking about these issues.

For people who say business locate places based on talent, does Portland have a lot of "talent" to offer. Depends on the business I would think. MAYBE for technologically intensive companies or white collar type work. Don't see why a trucking company might not be better off based on Idaho on the other hand.

Trust me, I'm not a chamber of commerce type. Only "business" experience I have is selling weed in college. I do try my best to read a variety of articles on economics and get a basic idea of how our society functions. I'm just saying, people got to have some sense about money in this world or they'll end up with nothing in the end.

Also, are Oregon schools really that bad? I've always heard it said that the students make the school and Oregon doesn't seem like the place that would be filled with problem kids like say Chicago here. What's the financial situation in Oregon schools? If Oregon schools are going broke, is it because a very small amount of money is directed to the schools, or because schools are inept at managing money or try to incorporate too many perks to the classroom when a good teacher and a piece of chalk will do the trick? Is it all schools that are struggling, or are places like Lake Oswego and Beaverton doing just fine?

Either way, setting a corporate income tax based on revenue seems completely asinine to me. Am I missing something?

Also, if people wait, revenue will probably increase for Oregon in a year or two because THE ECONOMY WILL GROW OUT OF A RECESSION and incomes will increase. Unfortunately, raising taxes in a recession to cover a budget shortfall will simply delay recovery, leading to less revenues, leading to the "need" to raise taxes again to cover the gap. This is akin to a cat chasing its own tail after some kid lights it on fire.

The time to resolve budget issues is when the economy is expanding, NOT when it is shrinking. However, as soon as the economy expands, instead of resolving lingering issues, almost every time the state government (not just in Oregon) will create even MORE programs meaning the state continues to operate right at the edge of disaster when the next recession comes along. Oh that's right, we "solved the business cycle" last decade and no longer needed to plan for recessions.

I'm an atheist, but I think some people could learn a thing or two from Joseph and the 7 years of feast, 7 years of famine parable.

Finally, the entire state economy seems dangerously dependent on Intel. It would be better to be more diversified.


The good news is that Portland will be less affected than a lot of "business-friendly" cities when oil climbs to $250-300 a barrel in the next few years. It is a compressed city, with decent mass transit. Food supply is close and utility costs for heating and cooling are less due to climate. I think all the people hyping Nevada, Texas, etc. will be in for a nasty shock when those sprawled out places get absolutely burned by energy costs this next decade.

[freedom]

The only positive thing about the tax hike, is that it wakes up those that have been caught up in the progressive hypnotics.
Unemployment will be over 20% by next yr. Fuel and Food (tied to fuel) will go through the roof, and therefore self sufficiency and independence will grow.

This will be critical for the coming world events.

I've never seen so many people returning to the land.

Learn how to take of yourselves, it's not going to be easy.

[Ultrarunner]

Oakland CA comes to mind as a city with a gross receipts tax... it's almost like a sales tax in disguise. The money comes off the top irregardless of profit or not.

Gross Receipts Taxes impact different types of business differently... high volume, low margin business takes a beating... no other way to say it.

[dlb8685]

I guess we can take a step back. US government policy and world macroeconomic factors will do far more to affect the situation in Oregon than anything state government does. That's something everyone should be able to agree on.

Most taxes still go to Uncle Sam, am I wrong?

[Fiddlehead]

I say we take step back and euthanize this thread. It seems to be going nowhere. I will agree with the comment about the gross receipts tax being an unusual challenge. Perhaps it could have been thought through better. Point taken. All the silliness about Oregon becoming a socialist rebublik or the tax hike being the birth pang of Armaggedon are what the OP wanted, and I think they are inappropriate.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by Fiddlehead

I say we take step back and euthanize this thread. It seems to be going nowhere. I will agree with the comment about the gross receipts tax being an unusual challenge. Perhaps it could have been thought through better. Point taken. All the silliness about Oregon becoming a socialist rebublik or the tax hike being the birth pang of Armaggedon are what the OP wanted, and I think they are inappropriate.

Do you know very many business owners? All i hear is that they are going to do everything possible to keep money from going to the state. There are loop holes in every extortion plan.
These tax increases have angered like you wouldn't believe, the result will be further unemployment, greater state debt, local gov't collapse, and the regulations and restrictions on freedoms, mainly the pursuit of happiness.

The PRO tax movement created a class warfare dogma that will not be quelled. Rich and poor will fight against eachother and the state of the state will only get worse.

WAKE UP. This isn't hyperbole, this is Oregon.

[philmyguns]

Originally Posted by tilegirl

what are you going to do in an economic downturn, when you realize that part of the problem is your long standing policy to not having taxes has finally caught up with the State? You want a look at mismangement, look at California with it's REPUBLICAN gover-nator who have completley trashed the state. It may never recover. THAT is what happens when you won't have or raise taxes. They finally hd to raise some income taxes, but it is way to late to compensate for the denial the Terminator has been living in for almost eight years. We have no education system left. Just hope it is not too late for Oregon.

are you serious? The problem with Governator is that he is a liberal/moderate republican. doesn't even matter that he is a republican cause he is not conservative! say what you want about him, we conservatives don't claim him either. How can you say California's problem is lack of taxes? Are we not one of, if not the most taxed state in the nation, and yet you say not enough. You know nothing about economics. Reaganomics is what saved us after the liberal socialistic Carter era. It has been undeniably proven that lowering taxes will increase tax income, Less taxes free up working capital for business expansion, business expansion creates jobs, jobs create income, income creates taxes. The economy thrives. Governator says, a healthy environment is a healthy economy.. what a load of crap, he's one of your liberals paralyzing the great state of CA.

[Leisesturm]

Originally Posted by philmyguns

It has been undeniably proven that lowering taxes will increase tax income, Less taxes free up working capital for business expansion, business expansion creates jobs, jobs create income, income creates taxes. The economy thrives.

Well... the economy should be booming then shouldn't it. Eight years of some of the most generous tax policies towards the business set. The Bush years saw the rich take another trillion dollars leap away from the middle class. Wow. Nice work if you can get it. How did they thank us. At the height of the madness 600K+ jobs leaving the economy. Monthly. Is that trickle down in action, or what!?

H