Should We Kill SunRail? Your Votes & Your Opinions Please. (Miami: rental car, rental)

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Infinite loop

I think, in the long run, it's a good project, but still a bit too early - the city still first need to get more buses, bus shelters/benches, crosswalks, sidewalks/bike paths, etc.

I think the lawsuit saying it's "unconstitutional" is silly and Falconeer is now sure to lose his election.

I do wonder about the train stops. I think the southernmost stop would be at Poincina Blvd and sOBT. How would they get the train to go back and forth from there? Would it have to do a U-turn somewhere nearby? Otherwise, it looks like it'd have to go through Haines City and maybe Davenport.

They don't do U-turns its a push pull train. You can operate it form the rear of the train , the only places where trains do U-turn's is up here on the NEC where its too dangerous to reverse across the tracks. Its actually a loop track goes under the lines..

[FLABoyJ]

Originally Posted by OrlFlaUsa

Since this is a thread about rail can we assume that what you're saying is that Tampa and Miami get it done with rail?? If so, tell me what rail project in Tampa or Miami for that matter has shown any success??

I'm not against change and would love to see Orlando embrace public transit as well as many other urban amenities, but the cost is too great. I mean where does all this money to build a high speed choo-choo to nowhere come from?? Who in the world is going to pay more than it would cost to drive yourself to go to downtown Tampa from OIA?? It's almost laughable since once you get to Tampa, then what?? Rent a car lol?? Wait, I got it!!!! Tourists staying at Disney will pay to take the high speed rail to Celebration and then get on another Disney bus to reach their individual resort instead of taking advantage of the already free Magical Express that drops them off at their hotel lobby while their bags are automatically claimed and waiting for them in their room.

As for SunRail, let's say I live in Altamonte Springs, about a 12-15 mile commute to downtown Orlando tops. Even between 8-9am, that drive takes about 20 minutes. I sit in my car, listen to my radio blasting, and cruise on down I-4. Or I could drive 3 miles to the Altamonte SunRail station, which is out of the way and requires me crossing I-4 on 436. A drive that by itself can take 8-12 minutes. Then I could park, wait 5-10 minutes for my train, and pay a fare just to get downtown. Assuming that I don't work right at the downtown station, I must now factor in another 5-10 minutes to walk to my job.

This scenario is why I think rail is a poor investment, not that I wish to resist change. I like Orlando the way it is and don't ever see it being a city where people are whisked to all parts via these so-called interconnected trains. Of course it's been great to watch the metro population almost triple in my lifetime, we've become a big city in so many ways but in others not so much. I like the balance we have and do not believe for a second that it's right to saddle debt to our future in the name of public transit.

You know what I notices? Pinellas and Hillborough both have different transportation plans which are in fact moving forward last i checked. Miami already has Tri-Rail so whats there to prove? They even have Metro Rail and MEtro Mover.

Driving is not always the answer as Orlando insists. Building more roads or making a road "TOLL" does not help a traffic issue. As other LARGER SMARTER Metros have proven rail increases public use as well as efficiency of public transportation options. And Again The Way "YOU" see it. How in the world do YOU know?


How DO YOU KNOw ANYTHING about the future?


My point has been proven by other cities(Not Tampa Yet) but we can easily go to other cities and see how they have made things work with the Public Transit. Be real about it it Moderator cut: languge sucks lol. But The cost thing. I dont know too much about it I just heard every county was putting up their own share.

[seain dublin]

Originally Posted by GLS2010

3 mile bike ride in 21 minutes? I ride my bike to the gym sometimes.. Its about a 4 mile bike ride and takes me about 15 mins. I do it during the summer too. I've done it with other people before and if you shower before and wear deoderant (like people should, every day) you don't smell. We sweat but no one smelled. And during the other half of the year when its really nice outside, you don't even sweat bad. Id like to see you try to go on a bike ride up north during winter, the cold wind will make your face numb and good luck riding on wet, icy, snowy, paths.

No one dressed in business attire is going to do this. If this is a commuter train. In the winter months it would be possible, not in the summer.

And having lived in Southern CA(were you could do this most of the year), the southwest, and the PNW you're loosing me on the ice and snow comments...LOL.

[seain dublin]

You also have to remember cities that have light rails have other modes of transportation connected with the rail.

A rail does you no if good if leaves people stranded without a connection to another mode of transportation such as buses, subways.

[FLABoyJ]

Originally Posted by seain dublin

You also have to remember cities that have light rails have other modes of transportation connected with the rail.

A rail does you no if good if leaves people stranded without a connection to another mode of transportation such as buses, subways.

Is true. Thats why I mentioned Miami. I really Love LA's and all of southern Californias transportation system.

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by FLABoyJ

You know what I notices? Pinellas and Hillborough both have different transportation plans which are in fact moving forward last i checked. Miami already has Tri-Rail so whats there to prove? They even have Metro Rail and MEtro Mover.

Driving is not always the answer as Orlando insists. Building more roads or making a road "TOLL" does not help a traffic issue. As other LARGER SMARTER Metros have proven rail increases public use as well as efficiency of public transportation options. And Again The Way "YOU" see it. How in the world do YOU know?


How DO YOU KNOw ANYTHING about the future?


My point has been proven by other cities(Not Tampa Yet) but we can easily go to other cities and see how they have made things work with the Public Transit. Be real about it it ****ing sucks lol. But The cost thing. I dont know too much about it I just heard every county was putting up their own share.

One for:
http://www.sunrail.com/Files/Brochures/Brochure_SunRail_TriFold.pdf (broken link)
One against:
My Train of Thought: Let's Derail SunRail - Orlando Magazine - April 2009 - Orlando, FL
One sorta for:
SunRail's debt load drops by $11 million a year - Orlando Sentinel

What do they all say and have in common $$$$$. Miami's systems have done little or nothing to ease the load down there. Do some people rely on them...sure. Actually metro mover is the best of all the Miami systems for now as Metrorail has made the wise yet costly move to expand to the airport, hopefully that pays off for them. Not sure I suggested that we build more roads or toll them to solve the traffic issue but building a system that will be inefficient and run at a deficit makes about as much sense as doing nothing.

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by FLABoyJ

Is true. Thats why I mentioned Miami. I really Love LA's and all of southern Californias transportation system.

LA is the car dependence mecca my friend, my experience there is why I believe that SunRail will be ineffective here. LA's rail drawrfs in range and routes what SunRail dreams to be and they even has a subway yet their transit is comparatively limited (to NE, Chicago, etc) and underused. It's light rail presence, while improving, was virtually invisible. We stayed in Culver City and wanted to see: Burbank, downtown LA, Hollywood, Bel Aire, Bev. Hills, Malibu, Long Beach, Santa Monica, and Venice. Guess how many of those places are connected easily with public transit??? ZERO .

[d4g4m]

NYC has the biggest transit system in the nation. It loses millions of dollars a year, even with heavy subsidies from anyone who owns a vehicle. There is an extra $50 added to vehicle registrations if you own a vehicle in NYC. There is over $1 added to every toll over every bridge and tunnel into NYC
What kind of extra fees, taxes, surcharges are the people of Orlando or all of Florida willing to have extorted from them to subsidize 'it's a great asset for the community' that no one will use?
And who are the people, groups pushing and wanting this rail system? What kind of salaries will they be paying themselves? What properties do they own along the proposed right of way?

[OrlFlaUsa]

Originally Posted by d4g4m

NYC has the biggest transit system in the nation. It loses millions of dollars a year, even with heavy subsidies from anyone who owns a vehicle. There is an extra $50 added to vehicle registrations if you own a vehicle in NYC. There is over $1 added to every toll over every bridge and tunnel into NYC
What kind of extra fees, taxes, surcharges are the people of Orlando or all of Florida willing to have extorted from them to subsidize 'it's a great asset for the community' that no one will use?
And who are the people, groups pushing and wanting this rail system? What kind of salaries will they be paying themselves? What properties do they own along the proposed right of way?

Exactly. It's almost worth it to pay all those extras in a place like NY where the Public Transit rocks. In Orlando, I'll take my car, put the top down to feel the breeze, and enjoy some music. The results of this poll are very telling as it seems many people don't mind the tax burden a very limited commuter rail will have on our city. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Orlando grow and urbanize a bit more, but it's a balance we have here and that's what I like.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by d4g4m

NYC has the biggest transit system in the nation. It loses millions of dollars a year, even with heavy subsidies from anyone who owns a vehicle. There is an extra $50 added to vehicle registrations if you own a vehicle in NYC. There is over $1 added to every toll over every bridge and tunnel into NYC
What kind of extra fees, taxes, surcharges are the people of Orlando or all of Florida willing to have extorted from them to subsidize 'it's a great asset for the community' that no one will use?
And who are the people, groups pushing and wanting this rail system? What kind of salaries will they be paying themselves? What properties do they own along the proposed right of way?

Corruption , lack of proper upgrades , and very spotty Maintenance have caused the system to lose Millions. But to be Fair its the MTA , that loses Millions not just the Subway. 11 Million ppl use the Subways , Regional Rail / Bus , Urban Bus and Access Ride. Our Higher Tolls go to fund projects or at least the ones operated by the PA. Not alot ppl drive in NYC , unless there cabbies. The Bos-Wash Corridor will spend around 260 Billion $$$ on New / Restored Rail & Transit over the next 2 decades. 70% of the Corridor will use Rail / Transit by the end of the decade. About 700 Billion $$$ in New Residential / Retail projects will go up around the corridor. You do get your bang out of your buck for these transit projects. Your City will get alot new sources of income and tourists.