Do you or Do You not Vaccinate? (opinion, normal, symptoms)
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OK, now that we've all had a laugh, sort of at your expense, I'll let you in on a secret. Dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) is . . . . . water! The link Eleanora1 provided is a spoof.
I'm not going to dignify your accusation that I've probably never read a package insert with a response.
Research is what separates fact from opinion.
I said egg allergy was still a contraindication to flu vaccine in post 259.
I stand by what I said about
You are aware there is a pertussis epidemic in California which has killed 10 babies.
Yeah---I never replied to the dihydro comment-- not sure what you are laughing at unless it's the fact you realized you are wrong :P
And non vaxers have paranoia!!!?? I simply asked if you read inserts of vax and you freak out with "accusations". So pretty much not dignifying something with a response is actually already responding to something...
I think that position has changed. See the links I posted above.
Well that's interesting! Thanks for sharing. We're starting our flu clinics next week; I will share with my co-workers.
Last fall, I asked this dad if his kids were allergic to eggs and he said no, then after the shots were given he said, yes, they are allergic to eggs. There were no problems. I've known for years that people who just can't eat eggs b/c of nausea, diarrhea, etc can get flu vaccine.
How about you refrain from insulting your own gender? That would be nice.
Please tell me what "opinions" I have and where I've made mistatements. There's a tremendous amount of bad information on the board anytime someone brings up vaccines. Pointing that out is self defense. If you're really convinced by some of the crazier allegations on these threads that's a sign of serious reasoning problems on your part.
The anti-vax stance is based on hysteria, fear mongering and sheer ignorance. It's not even new. One does the best one can and prays that the local idiot brigade simply stays away.
Every single one of your posts has involved insulting anyone who does not agree with you. You do realize, don't you, that bleeting and braying "Yer ignernt! Yer ignert! Yer ignert" repeatedly to anyone who disagrees with you does not, in fact, make your opponent ignorant, and does nothing to further your case.
Let's get you acquainted with some other facts.
FACTS:
1) Doctors and scientists are not infallible. They do their best to keep us healthy, but they make mistakes all the time.
2) The scientific process and scientific studies do not always tell the whole story. If they did, there wouldn't be hundreds of "well-researched and tested" drugs that were put on the market and then pulled due to injury and death. Thalidomide and Seldane come to mind but there are literally hundreds of others.
3) Anecdotal evidence linking vaccines and the sudden development of neurological disorders is overwhelming and MANY scientists and doctors have expressed interest in this. Lately their voices have been drowned out, they are black-balled and labeled quacks (even though they were in good standing prior to their unpopular position -- suddenly overnight they became quacks). The link may not be thimerosol or mercury, but the relationship bears yet MORE investigation (even if in your OPINION, it does not). THERE IS ROOM FOR DOUBT.
If the public does not automatically trust the medical and pharmaceutical industries, they are wise, not "ignert" as you claim. Everyone needs to make a decision for themselves.
You come off as a know it all when in fact, you have no credibility whatsoever. You are not an immunologist, a neurologist, or an epidemiologist. You state you are a "historian." Then surely you should be acquainted with FACTS 1 & 2 above. It is not clear that you have any more knowledge about vaccines than any other person posting here. Everyone has a right to express their thoughts and opinions on this subject, as the moderator has already stated (which you have ignored). You can have your position but stop presenting it as inarguable and stop calling everyone else an idiot.
Yeah---I never replied to the dihydro comment-- not sure what you are laughing at unless it's the fact you realized you are wrong :P
And non vaxers have paranoia!!!?? I simply asked if you read inserts of vax and you freak out with "accusations". So pretty much not dignifying something with a response is actually already responding to something...
I did not use the word paranoia anywhere; I would not call someone paranoid on this forum as it is considered a personal attack.
Asking a nurse if she's ever read a package insert, then answering yourself in the negative is insulting to nurses.
Every single one of your posts has involved insulting anyone who does not agree with you. You do realize, don't you, that bleeting and braying "Yer ignernt! Yer ignert! Yer ignert" repeatedly to anyone who disagrees with you does not, in fact, make your opponent ignorant, and does nothing to further your case.
Let's get you acquainted with some other facts.
FACTS:
1) Doctors and scientists are not infallible. They do their best to keep us healthy, but they make mistakes all the time.
2) The scientific process and scientific studies do not always tell the whole story. If they did, there wouldn't be hundreds of "well-researched and tested" drugs that were put on the market and then pulled due to injury and death. Thalidomide and Seldane come to mind but there are literally hundreds of others.
3) Anecdotal evidence linking vaccines and the sudden development of neurological disorders is overwhelming and MANY scientists and doctors have expressed interest in this. Lately their voices have been drowned out, they are black-balled and labeled quacks (even though they were in good standing prior to their unpopular position -- suddenly overnight they became quacks). The link may not be thimerosol or mercury, but the relationship bears yet MORE investigation (even if in your OPINION, it does not). THERE IS ROOM FOR DOUBT.
If the public does not automatically trust the medical and pharmaceutical industries, they are wise, not "ignert" as you claim. Everyone needs to make a decision for themselves.
You come off as a know it all when in fact, you have no credibility whatsoever. You are not an immunologist, a neurologist, or an epidemiologist. You state you are a "historian." Then surely you should be acquainted with FACTS 1 & 2 above. It is not clear that you have any more knowledge about vaccines than any other person posting here. Everyone has a right to express their thoughts and opinions on this subject, as the moderator has already stated (which you have ignored). You can have your position but stop presenting it as inarguable and stop calling everyone else an idiot.
Still waiting for a single factual assertion. Or for your own alleged credentials. This the net. I could pretend to be Andrew Wakefield or Paul Offit. I could pretend anything at all.
Your point?
Asserting that doctors don't know everything is a non-sequitor that has nothing to do with the topic. Asserting that vaccines are flawed because of thalidomide again has nothing to do with the topic. Asserting that anecdotal evidence should be given creedence again has nothing to do with the topic. The plural of anecdote is NOT data.
Factual, please.
Factual as in smallpox does not exist. Factual as in infant mortality rates have vastly fallen. Factual as in polio, diphtheria, hib, measles, mumps and rubella have largely disappeared in areas where one sees widespread vaccination. Factual as in rates of learning disabilities and mental retardation have fallen in areas where autism rates have risen.
Quoting conspiracy theory websites and asserting that vaccines contain "dangerous" ingredients is ignorant. Accusing someone of being unacquainted with reason and hysterical because they are pregnant is deeply rooted in insulting historical stereotypes about women.
Let's keep the facts. Not to one's wishes or one's beliefs or one's desires. The facts. Go ahead. Express your opinion. But if your opinion is rooted in nothing more than dangerous and unfounded speculation you WILL be called on it. If you continue to argue in against standard public health measures that protect the lives of our ALL our children again you WILL be called on it.
Vaccines are pretty much inarguable. Non-vaccination brings back dangerous and infectious illness that kills babies and children. If any anti-vaxxer did not come away from my posts knowing that I hold them in deep deserved contempt as a direct threat to my own health and the health of the baby I carry I would be disgusted at myself.
Please tell me what you consider good reasons not to vaccinate healthy babies. Please further tell me what vaccine preventable diseases you consider fine as well as how you would treat babies with said vaccine preventable diseases. Please tell me which vaccines you wish to get rid of and why. Please tell me what you consider good websites.
Go ahead. Please do.
Last edited by Eleanora1; 10-24-2010 at 01:14 PM..
Still waiting for a single factual assertion. Or for your own alleged credentials. This the net. I could pretend to be Andrew Wakefield or Paul Offit. I could pretend anything at all.
Your point?
Asserting that doctors don't know everything is a non-sequitor that has nothing to do with the topic. Asserting that vaccines are flawed because of thalidomide again has nothing to do with the topic. Asserting that anecdotal evidence should be given creedence again has nothing to do with the topic. The plural of anecdote is NOT data.
Factual, please.
Factual as in smallpox does not exist. Factual as in infant mortality rates have vastly fallen. Factual as in polio, diphtheria, hib, measles, mumps and rubella have largely disappeared in areas where one sees widespread vaccination. Factual as in rates of learning disabilities and mental retardation have fallen in areas where autism rates have risen.
Quoting conspiracy theory websites and asserting that vaccines contain "dangerous" ingredients is ignorant. Accusing someone of being unacquainted with reason and hysterical because they are pregnant is deeply rooted in insulting historical stereotypes about women.
Let's keep the facts. Not to one's wishes or one's beliefs or one's desires. The facts. Go ahead. Express your opinion. But if your opinion is rooted in nothing more than dangerous and unfounded speculation you WILL be called on it. If you continue to argue in against standard public health measures that protect the lives of our ALL our children again you WILL be called on it.
Vaccines are pretty much inarguable. Non-vaccination brings back dangerous and infectious illness that kills babies and children. If any anti-vaxxer did not come away from my posts knowing that I hold them in deep deserved contempt as a direct threat to my own health and the health of the baby I carry I would be disgusted at myself.
Please tell me what you consider good reasons not to vaccinate healthy babies. Please further tell me what vaccine preventable diseases you consider fine as well as how you would treat babies with said vaccine preventable diseases. Please tell me which vaccines you wish to get rid of and why. Please tell me what you consider good websites.
Go ahead. Please do.
Oh brother, as if you have the knowledge to "call" anybody on anything. Sweetie, please, GET OVER YOURSELF!
Oh brother, as if you have the knowledge to "call" anybody on anything. Sweetie, please, GET OVER YOURSELF!
So we're not going to answer my questions, huh?
Gee how surprising!
I reiterate. Which vaccines do you think we should stop using and why? How would you treat vaccine preventable diseases when they come back?
How would YOU treat or prevent polio? Measles? Mumps? Rubella? Tetanus? How would stop hib? How would you treat someone with diphtheria? What would you do to get rid of hep b? What would you do to reduce spread of the flu? Treat a baby choking from pertussis?
1) Doctors and scientists are not infallible. They do their best to keep us healthy, but they make mistakes all the time.
2) The scientific process and scientific studies do not always tell the whole story. If they did, there wouldn't be hundreds of "well-researched and tested" drugs that were put on the market and then pulled due to injury and death. Thalidomide and Seldane come to mind but there are literally hundreds of others.
3) Anecdotal evidence linking vaccines and the sudden development of neurological disorders is overwhelming and MANY scientists and doctors have expressed interest in this. Lately their voices have been drowned out, they are black-balled and labeled quacks (even though they were in good standing prior to their unpopular position -- suddenly overnight they became quacks). The link may not be thimerosol or mercury, but the relationship bears yet MORE investigation (even if in your OPINION, it does not). THERE IS ROOM FOR DOUBT.
If the public does not automatically trust the medical and pharmaceutical industries, they are wise, not "ignert" as you claim. Everyone needs to make a decision for themselves.
Yes, everyone should educate themselves, and make the best decisions for themselves and their families, but finding objective information is difiicult, and there are a lot of fear-mongers adding blatantly innacurate information to the data banks.
I am curious though, you state you are a RN working with adults. I am assuming people ask your opinion on vaccines from time to time, so what do you tell them, and where do you send them to get more information? Where do you yourself find out information about vaccines? Are you for or against routine childhood vaccines?
I reiterate. Which vaccines do you think we should stop using and why? How would you treat vaccine preventable diseases when they come back?
How would YOU treat or prevent polio? Measles? Mumps? Rubella? Tetanus? How would stop hib? How would you treat someone with diphtheria? What would you do to get rid of hep b? What would you do to reduce spread of the flu? Treat a baby choking from pertussis?
Do tell.
Do you seriously think that any "anti vaxers" here really care whether an overwrought and hostile pregnant woman on CD holds them in contempt? If you do, then you have a very inflated view of your impact on the world.
You are not capable of rational discussion. You yourself are fearmongering on the other side of the issue, and are completely incapable of considering other points of view.
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