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If you were listening, you would have heard a couple of parents share their experiences with teachers. Parents can be put under an unfair amount of pressure to medicate their children with scare tactics such as being held back or being told their children will be failures without medicine.
You would also hear pediatricians will write the prescription without an in depth examination they are not qualified to do.
You would also have heard about how teachers will focus on every single move a child makes to find facts to support conclusions.
You would also have read about a straight A student who the school is pressuring the parents to medicate.
All of that is in this thread and you seemed to have skipped over all of it.
Go back. Read the thread. Then post.
some not all teachers. Some not all doctors. If the PARENT feels the doctor didn't do a thorough exam before prescribing meds, the PARENT should get a 2nd opinion.
some not all teachers. Some not all doctors. If the PARENT feels the doctor didn't do a thorough exam before prescribing meds, the PARENT should get a 2nd opinion.
You do realize you are eating your foot. It isn't just in your mouth. It is half way down your throat now.
Not every parent is as knowledgeable as you when it comes to medicine. They do not have the formal training to understand why a pediatrician is not qualified. They trust their doctors.
They are also under constant pressure from schools using scare tactics. You seem immune to it though, but you do not seem to understand not everyone is.
Oh of course it means the parents are unfit.
There are an awful lot of unfit parents it seems.
I did. There are like 3 people who have repeatedly said that their kid's teacher pushed a diagnosis. So what? As I've pointed out before, the teacher can not prescribe meds. the PARENT is the one who makes the decision on how the situation is handled. You seem to be drawing a direct line between teachers and over-medicating children. You obviously have a personal bias, but your 1 personal experience doesn't mean there is a pervasive problem in the schools. Your question is "should teachers diagnose" The answer has been given over and over - no they shouldn't, and they don't "diagnose". Why do you not place blame on your doctor or your parents like you do your teacher?
ETA if all parents are not "as knowledgeable as I am" about these things, should the teacher not point out the issues the child is having?
the PARENT is the one who makes the decision on how the situation is handled.
Interesting that you should make this statement given some of your other statements in this thread, to be more precise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305
I don't know that anyone is more qualified to notice signs of ADHD or other behavioral problems in young kids. A teacher has spent 6-7 hours/day 5 days/week, 9 months/year with kids the same grade level and age as "your" child.
and this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305
wsop- the teacher and school psych. wouldn't take up their own time calling a meeting with you if they didn't feel that there was an issue. Burying your head in the sand will not make it go away. Do your child a favor and get him evaluated. It could make the rest of his life a lot easier.
and this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkb0305
No, not because I know him so well, because the teacher does!
These statements suggest you place a LOT of weight on a teacher's opinion. I'm not necessarily faulting you for that, but then you have to understand that there are MANY parents out there that also place as much weight on the teacher's opinion. How then, can you say it is up to the parent when you don't believe this yourself? Case in point, without you knowing ANYTHING about my personal situation other than what I posted here, you imply I am in denial over my child and that I should get him evaluated, as doing so will make the rest of his life a lot easier!
In actuality, this is how it typically plays out:
1. Teacher observes child in class who is "not like the others".
2. Teacher has trouble disciplining said child and/or teaching child because he/she is "not like the others." Teacher feels like he/she is being ineffective and so projects his/her inadequacies on the child.
3. Teacher makes own armchair diagnosis of child's problem based on some silly checklists he/she found on internet or was given during a summer seminar.
4. Teacher foresees resistance from parents and so makes sure to spend a few months 'documenting' child's behavior.
5. Since the teacher is specifically focusing on said child, he/she will be able to find many instances of 'different' behavior that is probably quite often misinterpreted.
6. Teacher calls parent in for meeting and enlists reinforcements to catch parent off guard and make them vulnerable and then goes down a looooong laundry list of behaviors that fit a SPECIFIC disorder even though often the specific disorder itself is never mentioned.
7. Teacher suggest parents takes child to medical doctor.
8. Parent goes home reeling and is riddled with all types of guilt wondering how they could not have noticed how much their child was struggling.
9. Parent then begins to analyze every behavior, no matter how normal, the child engages in, i.e. the arguments over getting HW done, (very normal) the seemingly endless amount of energy the child displays after school (again, normal, particularly since they needed to remain seated for 6 hours prior to arriving home), etc. You get the picture.
10. Now the parent becomes convinced the child really does have a problem. After all, the teacher appeared GENUINELY concerned over their child's well being and seemed to only want the best. (As an aside, I DO believe in these scenarios the teacher GENUINELY cares and is concerned and feels he/she is doing the right thing. Unfortunately, I think teachers have an inflated ego regarding their expertise in these situations in that they believe they ARE experts in child behavior, when in actuality they ARE NOT!)
11. By the time a parent gets in to see a specialist, the teacher has probably called the parent several times to report even more deviant behavior and the parent is beside themselves. Also, the teacher is most likely inquiring if the parent has taken the child to the doctor yet, thereby putting on the pressure.
12. Now the parent is expressing her concerns over the child with the doctor, relaying what has been going on in school, relaying things occurring at home as a lot more troublesome than typical child behavior because the parent is now in panic mode.
13. Soooo, what's a doctor to do? CYA!!! Prescribe low dose of med and if there is ANY improvement, everyone is happy!! But remember, the med can act as a placebo even to the parent and teacher, knowing the child is on meds, some of the behaviors no longer seem so bad!
14. CONCLUSION: Teacher sees problem, school puts on pressure, parent does what is expected or risk being a negligent parent in school's eyes, doctor covers his ass and writes script, everyone is happy EXCEPT the kid at some point. YET, despite the fact that the teacher caused this HUGE domino effect, IT IS NOT THE TEACHER'S FAULT! THE TEACHER DIDN'T TAKE THE CHILD TO THE DOCTOR AND GET HIM/HER ON MEDS, THE PARENT DID!
I am wondering, RKB, what personal experience you have with all this since you seem so sure of yourself?
EDITED to add: I read so many posts online by teachers give armchair dx's. Their post is typically proceeded with "I am not qualified to dx, BUT I believe a child in my class is 'ADHD', 'ASD', 'ODD', etc. You fill in the blank. These posts are typically met with replies from OTHER teachers such as "It definitely sounds like (FILL IN THE BLANK) based on your description!
When the child gets put on meds and it DOESN'T work, these same teacher cry "I didn't take the child to the doctor and prescribe the meds. I had nothing to do with it. I just gave the parents the information regarding the behaviors I observed". YET, on the 'rare' occasion the teacher is right (and let's face it, if you suggest ADHD regarding enough kids, you will eventually be right about at least ONE of them), these same teachers loudly PAT THEMSELVES on the back! After all, if it wasn't for them the parents would have NEVER figured out there was a problem with their child.
I fail to see how a teacher discussing issues the child his having with the parents is a bad thing. I'm not the only one who thinks so, either. I've had several reps in this thread. I will stop talking to the wall now. I don't have time. If my child ever shows signs on ADHD, I sure as he** hope his teacher points it out to me.
I fail to see how a teacher discussing issues the child his having with the parents is a bad thing. I'm not the only one who thinks so, either. I've had several reps in this thread. I will stop talking to the wall now. I don't have time. If my child ever shows signs on ADHD, I sure as he** hope his teacher points it out to me.
I have received several reps as well. That just means those that rep'd me agree with my OPINION, just as those that rep'd you agree with your OPINION.
Talking to the wall? Who is talking to the wall? It appears from your posts that you don't actually have any personal experience with this, yet you are the one talking to the wall?
If your child ever shows signs of ADHD, believe me, you won't need a teacher to point it out to you. It will be fairly obvious that there is something very wrong. I had the pleasure of having a boy dx'd with ADHD sleep over my house one night. If there was any doubt left in my mind that some kids REALLY do have ADHD, it was dispelled that night.
The thing is ADD/ADHD-like 'symptoms' can present themselves in the classroom for a VARIETY of reasons: boredom, illness, allergies, learning disability, learning style inconsistent with teaching methods, poor diet, negative classroom environment, immaturity, lack of proper sleep. The list goes on and on.
What are some of the symptoms?
Fidgeting - maybe the kid is bored, maybe the kid struggles in that particular subject, maybe the kid had no recess or gym that day. Maybe he had too much sugar for breakfast.
Impulsiveness - Example: kid blurts out answers. Well, maybe he is just smarter than the rest of class and suffers through waiting for the others to catch up. Nothing is more frustrating than waiting for an entire class to 'get' what you got in the first 2 minutes!
Disorganization - I LOVE this one. Teachers are quick to report that a kid's desk is a mess, yet they NEVER take the time to have the kids clean out their desks and NEVER actually teach them how to do it!
The 'symptoms' of ADD/ADHD need to be present in other environments, i.e. at HOME, to even be considered. Symptoms do not mean the child's room is a mess or the child is jumping up and down on the couch, or the child doesn't want to do their homework, or chooses another activity over doing HW.
The biggest problem I see is that teachers, whether consciously or unconsciously, believe themselves able to identify specific disorders in a child, and they PROJECT their opinion on both the child and the child's parent, regardless of whether they actually NAME the disorder out loud. They have already DECIDED. They interact differently with that child AND the child's parent based on their mere PERCEPTIONS.
In other words, once they have decided what is wrong with the child, they now become a BIASED observer and they formulate their opinions on SUBJECTIVE data. Because teachers actually believe themselves to be qualified to identify (NOT dx, they are quick to make this distinction), they erroneously are 100% confident in their conclusion and pretty much nothing will change their minds.
Sooooo, despite the fact that they can not DIAGNOSE, the effect of the teacher's opinion spreads FAR and WIDE, and this is a serious problem! Because no matter how you look at it, teachers are NOT even qualified to IDENTIFY a possible disorder. Nothing in their training gives them this qualification, and no amount of experience gives them this training either, because no matter how many years they have spent teaching children, they have LIMITED experience with THIS particular child.
If your child ever shows signs of ADHD, believe me, you won't need a teacher to point it out to you. It will be fairly obvious that there is something very wrong. I had the pleasure of having a boy dx'd with ADHD sleep over my house one night. If there was any doubt left in my mind that some kids REALLY do have ADHD, it was dispelled that night.
.
You are right about this. I knew, from day one really, that my youngest son was different from the older 3. It's one of the reasons I homeschooled him, because I knew that once I put him in school it would become a real issue. It took a few months for the parent -teacher meeting that I knew would come. The difference is, already knew my sons was different. Hearing it from a teacher just confirmed what I already knew.
And you are right, his ADHD doesn't just disappear when he is not in school. It effects him every day and all the time
Teachers should be able to voice their concerns but they are not doctors.
Exactly.
School, at its best, is a collaborative effort between parent, child and teacher.
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