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I realize this whole issue is over and settled but I wanted to respond to this
Quote:
I would expect him to be suspended and I would expect him to apologize publicly
No. Just no. All this would do is call attention to the situation and anyone who didn't know or care would be forced to, making the victim a victim all over again. Rethink your logic before you actually are faced with a situation like this or you are going to make it worse for everyone.
Almost certainly suspension. Probably for longer than the one who pulled down his pants.
When I was in jr high I got teased and harrassed considerably. I took exception to my friend who walked with braces and had difficulty with language from polio being called a 'cripple' among other things. I also cried real easy. One day we were having a cooking demo and they passed out food on toothpicks. Some of them were poking me with the toothpicks, and I just HAD it and lost my temper and hit the girl next to me. She turned out not to be participating and I got suspended for a day but she backed me up on what they were doing.
The rest of them got suspended for a week. They viewed me defending myself and I was very sorry about hitting the girl. They were just being abusive and we had a girls vp who didn't believe in that kind of tolerance.
I would hope schools today wuld make that distinction.
When I was in jr high I got teased and harrassed considerably. I took exception to my friend who walked with braces and had difficulty with language from polio being called a 'cripple' among other things. I also cried real easy. One day we were having a cooking demo and they passed out food on toothpicks. Some of them were poking me with the toothpicks, and I just HAD it and lost my temper and hit the girl next to me. She turned out not to be participating and I got suspended for a day but she backed me up on what they were doing.
The rest of them got suspended for a week. They viewed me defending myself and I was very sorry about hitting the girl. They were just being abusive and we had a girls vp who didn't believe in that kind of tolerance.
I would hope schools today wuld make that distinction.
It seems most schools still suspend anyone involved in a fight regardless of who the instigator was.
My dad was a high school counselor for 30-some years, and that was the policy at the school where he worked. He was bothered by this, so his policy was to take his time breaking up a fight if the "right" person was winning.
I really wish the more vocal posters/regulars in this thread would respond to the one that asked how they would want the kid treated it if it was their own son that did the pantsing.
I don't condone pantsing. I think it's a stupid thing to do and it should be noted that the victim of this prank is typically the quiet, shy, awkward kid that would be most mortified at the event. That's what makes it fun for the prankster. If they did it to someone who didn't care, the reaction wouldn't be what they were looking for.
I think calling the police is taking things way too far. I like the story upthread about the gym teacher lining up the boys but if a comment like "you will answer to me" was said, I'd bet there would be parents flipping out at the school saying a teacher threatened their child and the focus would shift to that rather than the stupid behavior of their kids.
The scary thing about pantsing and other pranks is that the parents of the prankster might think it's hilarious and say "Oh gimme a break, it happened to all of us in school" if contacted by the pantsed kid's parent. At that point, you have to rely on the school to punish appropriately. Don't kid yourself though, the scream about lawyers can come just as easily from the suspended kid's side because to their parents think their kid should not be punished for something that "everyone goes through."
This parental reaction is not new though. Way back when I was about 13, I was in front of a friend's house and an 8 year old neighbor boy was walking by with his mother. The kid out of nowhere punched me in the stomach and hit just the right spot to freeze me. It hurt like hell. So of course, I started to tear up. I was a small girl. The mother started laughing at me for crying about a punch from "just an 8 year old." She also saw fit to tell her older children (teens) about how stupid I was for crying so for months after that, they would mock cry when they saw me and make fun of me. Boy did that suck.
I don't really get how suspension is a punishment. The kid gets to stay home for a couple of days, gets his homework and whatever sent home and that's that. If the parents think he wasn't wrong, the kid is probably playing video games and hanging out. I don't see that as an effective punishment. Making the kid come to school and sit in the principal's office all day at a desk without saying a word seems a more fitting suspension punishment than letting them stay home and sleep in.
My 7th grade son is home today crying from embarrassment. A boy was dared to pull his pants down in the gym in front of all his classmates-boys and girls. Yes his underwear also came down.
The boy got two days suspension, but what should I do about my son.
Good Grief!! I am a Mom and sorry to say there is nothing any crueler than another kid..especially a bully and this to me is a form of bullying. I would imagine when your son's pants came down his instinct was to cover himself so chances are all they saw was his butt; but still how awful. I would let your son stay home for a few days to calm down. Talk to him about how you are pretty sure that he instinctively covered his front but the back was probably out there and it isn't his fault. The kids are gonna tease him, that's just how it goes with kids especially at 13. I guess what is of biggest concern here is how very delicate a boys sexuality is at 13 when they are just discovering what "things can do".
This will all blow over but unfortunately probably not be forgotten for a long time. I guess we all have embarassing moments in our life and if you share that with your son, it could help him understand..some people are simply mean and there is no way around them other than to stand up to them. My heart goes out to your son! Good luck with this one and SHAME on the boy who did this to your son.
This isn't the 40's or 50's and I surely never heard of this and kids are CRUEL now. Many things have changed since then......
Yes, being 74 I am quite aware that it is not the 40's or 50's. Thank you for the reminder, though.
But having gone to school in those decades, I can assure you that "de-pantsing," while hardly a common occurance, did occur then too. I am hardly surprised that it still occurs either.
Are you so foolish as to believe that cruelty on the part of kids is new? Many things have changed, indeed; but cruelty in some youngsters and the use of sexual exhibitionism and sexual humiliation is not part of what is new.
I grew up in an idyllic small town of slightly less than 5,000 people. It was a paradise of a place to be a kid, and it is quite unfortunate that youngsters cannot grow up in such environments today.
However, life in the village certainly had its darker side, and that included the life of youngsters. I hope this will not induce culture shock in some of the younger people reading this thread, but I have to tell you - from first-hand experience - that bullying, sexual horseplay, sexual humiliation and even male rape occured in this paradise.
Being somewhat on the slender side, overly-studious and quite unsure of myself, I was the butt of bullies sometimes, a couple times in the winter I had my "face washed" by a bully (scrubbed hard with a handful of snow on the way to school), I was never "depantsed," but I was on one occasion at the end of gym class aggressively humiliated as a "fairy" and taunted to give a BJ by two older boys with reputations as "troublemakers" in the class. It came to a quick end when a very big, muscular black classmate stepped forward and in a booming voice declared, "Leave him alone, or I'll beat the sh*t out of you both." The tormentors were two white boys, the sons of popular businessmen in the town....so there was a lot going on in all this business. The coach, hearing the hullabaloo, stepped out of his office, and that was the end of it. Silence.
It was ugly. I was deeply humiliated, but also heartened when not just LaVern, the black classmate, but boys of various ages had stepped in verbally on my side. It was sexual humiliation and intimidation, and you will never eliminate it from male conduct unless you castrate all males before age two. It is built into men, but it certainly needs to be channeled, controlled and kept within in much better bounds than men often do on their own.
As for deeply evil cruelty, that existed too. As I have mentioned before in rose-colored glasses threads of nostalgia, in my class there was a boy who was mentally retarded. Twice while I was in Jr. high and high school he was gang-raped, sodomized. Once by these same two boys, and once by another group of four or five. (I should add that one of the two boys I mentioned when he grew up engaged in local politics and was elected one of the town fathers.)
Nothing was done about it. His family was "white trash," his assailants were the sons of good working class men or businessmen. The purpose of law enforcement in a small town in those years was to keep the peace, which often primarily meant supressing the visibility of crimes that would create division and scandal in a small community.
There were other incidents where male aggression reached a level almost as bad, but I don't see any point in making a list of them.
Kids can be cruel now; kids, as I know for a fact, were cruel then too.
NJGoat has written very intelligently and eloquently about the effects of humiliation. In the same vein, I will add that I certainly left high school and that town with some negative imprints from my experiences at school, and I might add from my experiences within my family. I also left school with wonderful, wonderful warm memories and positive feelings; and despite having two extremely immature and crudely inept parents, I have some fine family memories as well. And, I spent a number of years sorting these things out - not always well, and then resorting them again in later years....I think this is part of life.
However, I did have to deal with some very severe negative things on my own and there is no denying that. But I accepted that I needed to resolve these things come hell or high water, and if it seemed sometimes "unfair," it also seemed quite natural. My father had a difficult life, some of which I witnessed as a child. He was a bully, but he did emerge from the difficulties of his life and he did eventually become a successful and respected businessman.
Thus, I knew that you could perservere and repair your damaged parts, but I learned from experiencing the worst of my father that I needed - and wanted - to refrain from emerging as bully too.
The OP's child was the victim of an incident of sexual humiliation, without a doubt. I would have to trust to her ability to deal with her son on a one-to-one basis, though male children are usually very guarded in dealing with matters of sex with Mom. My concern is that if she continues to pursue this with the school or even the other kid's parents that in the end her son will become an ongoing object of ridicule because of her efforts, and what could have been a passing humiliation in his life will turn into a crysalis from which he emerges with VICTIM as a major component of his makeup.
Good Grief!!...Talk to him about how you are pretty sure that he instinctively covered his front but the back was probably out there and it isn't his fault....
Good grief!! is right.
You are all for sending him A BIG MESSAGE that his penis and testicals are something to be ashamed of.
I truly, truly hope the OP does not say something like this. Nor keep him home, like he was a object of shame to be hidden away.
Lord Almighty, another kid exposed her son's gonads, but you are all for psychologically chopping them off!
Yes, being 74 I am quite aware that it is not the 40's or 50's. Thank you for the reminder, though.
But having gone to school in those decades, I can assure you that "de-pantsing," while hardly a common occurance, did occur then too. I am hardly surprised that it still occurs either.
Are you so foolish as to believe that cruelty on the part of kids is new? Many things have changed, indeed; but cruelty in some youngsters and the use of sexual exhibitionism and sexual humiliation is not part of what is new.
I grew up in an idyllic small town of slightly less than 5,000 people. It was a paradise of a place to be a kid, and it is quite unfortunate that youngsters cannot grow up in such environments today.
However, life in the village certainly had its darker side, and that included the life of youngsters. I hope this will not induce culture shock in some of the younger people reading this thread, but I have to tell you - from first-hand experience - that bullying, sexual horseplay, sexual humiliation and even male rape occured in this paradise.
Being somewhat on the slender side, overly-studious and quite unsure of myself, I was the butt of bullies sometimes, a couple times in the winter I had my "face washed" by a bully (scrubbed hard with a handful of snow on the way to school), I was never "depantsed," but I was on one occasion at the end of gym class aggressively humiliated as a "fairy" and taunted to give a BJ by two older boys with reputations as "troublemakers" in the class. It came to a quick end when a very big, muscular black classmate stepped forward and in a booming voice declared, "Leave him alone, or I'll beat the sh*t out of you both." The tormentors were two white boys, the sons of popular businessmen in the town....so there was a lot going on in all this business. The coach, hearing the hullabaloo, stepped out of his office, and that was the end of it. Silence.
It was ugly. I was deeply humiliated, but also heartened when not just LaVern, the black classmate, but boys of various ages had stepped in verbally on my side. It was sexual humiliation and intimidation, and you will never eliminate it from male conduct unless you castrate all males before age two. It is built into men, but it certainly needs to be channeled, controlled and kept within in much better bounds than men often do on their own.
As for deeply evil cruelty, that existed too. As I have mentioned before in rose-colored glasses threads of nostalgia, in my class there was a boy who was mentally retarded. Twice while I was in Jr. high and high school he was gang-raped, sodomized. Once by these same two boys, and once by another group of four or five. (I should add that one of the two boys I mentioned when he grew up engaged in local politics and was elected one of the town fathers.)
Nothing was done about it. His family was "white trash," his assailants were the sons of good working class men or businessmen. The purpose of law enforcement in a small town in those years was to keep the peace, which often primarily meant supressing the visibility of crimes that would create division and scandal in a small community.
There were other incidents where male aggression reached a level almost as bad, but I don't see any point in making a list of them.
Kids can be cruel now; kids, as I know for a fact, were cruel then too.
NJGoat has written very intelligently and eloquently about the effects of humiliation. In the same vein, I will add that I certainly left high school and that town with some negative imprints from my experiences at school, and I might add from my experiences within my family. I also left school with wonderful, wonderful warm memories and positive feelings; and despite having two extremely immature and crudely inept parents, I have some fine family memories as well. And, I spent a number of years sorting these things out - not always well, and then resorting them again in later years....I think this is part of life.
However, I did have to deal with some very severe negative things on my own and there is no denying that. But I accepted that I needed to resolve these things come hell or high water, and if it seemed sometimes "unfair," it also seemed quite natural. My father had a difficult life, some of which I witnessed as a child. He was a bully, but he did emerge from the difficulties of his life and he did eventually become a successful and respected businessman.
Thus, I knew that you could perservere and repair your damaged parts, but I learned from experiencing the worst of my father that I needed - and wanted - to refrain from emerging as bully too.
The OP's child was the victim of an incident of sexual humiliation, without a doubt. I would have to trust to her ability to deal with her son on a one-to-one basis, though male children are usually very guarded in dealing with matters of sex with Mom. My concern is that if she continues to pursue this with the school or even the other kid's parents that in the end her son will become an ongoing object of ridicule because of her efforts, and what could have been a passing humiliation in his life will turn into a crysalis from which he emerges with VICTIM as a major component of his makeup.
kevxu,
I am so very glad to read an opinion from the POV from someone who actually grew up in the "perfect" decades of the 40s and 50s. I really appreciate the time you took writing this all out.
I completely agree that learning how to do deal with the less-than-wonderful side of humanity is a part of life for all of us.
I realize this whole issue is over and settled but I wanted to respond to this
No. Just no. All this would do is call attention to the situation and anyone who didn't know or care would be forced to, making the victim a victim all over again. Rethink your logic before you actually are faced with a situation like this or you are going to make it worse for everyone.
I think you were quoting me, so I'll respond. I was thinking more along the lines of the kid who did the pantsing being required to apologize at the moment it happened, in front of the same people who saw it happen, not a separate apology with the home room announcements the next day or something. I agree that dredging it back up after it's over and done with would not be preferable. I do think that requiring the "pantser" to make a correction in the moment would be justified and not draw any more attention to the "pantsee" than was already given by the initial incident.
Wow, I just got back on City Data and this thread has gone beyond my expectations. Good and Bad. My son is doing well, seems to have laughed the whole thing off. Situations and outcomes will vary very much, due to the individuals. If this had happened to my younger son, he would have cried for weeks on end, then I would have been more upset and seek revenge against the bully, school and bullys' family. That being said, I hate to even say this, but the boy who did the pantsing was back in school the 2nd day. He did not even get the full 2 days suspension. I guess he was never in trouble before and they thought the 1 day was enough. My son missed more school then he did???
I could have made a huge fuss but the whole event was becoming a fading memory-so why prolong it. Yes I am mad at the school and will not forget this act of kindness for the bully incase one of my other children find themselves in trouble down the road.
Again all kids are different, for the children who are mentally/physically weaker than the norm--my heart goes out to their parents and the children. Let's face it there is bullying going on everyday that we experience. It is how you cope with it that is the real test. It's hard to learn to laugh at our weakness or embarrassments. It's not something someone can teach you how to do. You just have to have confidence in yourself, your friends and family to help you get thru the tough times, cause there really is no easy way out.
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