Do You Talk To Your Kids About Rape? (divorce, activities, 13 year old)
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Yes, I think if any of them said they did not know it was rape they are simply feigning ignorance to make themselves look more innocent. They knew it was rape, they knew it was "wrong", and they either approved of it or were too afraid of the repercussions had they objected.
Yes, and if everyone were talking to kids, both girls AND boys about what rape is, and how severe the punishment will be, they would never have been able to use such a lame excuse, and have the media feel sorry for them. Everyone tells girls not to drink, and to always be careful, that's the easy part of rape education, but it hasn't decreased rape, it usually just serves to keep girls who had any drinks from reporting rape, and rapists know this so they use alcohol as their excuse.
Only real, and thorough education aimed at both genders, and real punishment without victim blaming will decrease rape, but that's a lot more difficult than telling a girl not to drink, so far too many people don't want to deal with what needs to be done. We need to change our whole culture surrounding rape, and yet over and over again, it's the same argument, "girls shouldn't drink, end of story." Even if all girls stopped drinking, rapists would find another excuse, drinking is just the new short skirt people want to focus on so they don't have to deal with talking about sex, and when it is rape.
Yes, and if everyone were talking to kids, both girls AND boys about what rape is, and how severe the punishment will be, they would never have been able to use such a lame excuse, and have the media feel sorry for them.
I am not sure how the media feeling sorry for them is good for them. Seems to me that facing juvenile detention until 21 is pretty bad.
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Everyone tells girls not to drink, and to always be careful, that's the easy part of rape education, but it hasn't decreased rape, it usually just serves to keep girls who had any drinks from reporting rape, and rapists know this so they use alcohol as their excuse.
Because I don't think we ARE getting the message out to kids that drinking has real risk. I know the education that I am seeing out of the middle and high schools here is crap. It talks about addiction and health but does not touch on the risk associated with losing control. This is a message ALL of our children, boys and girls, need. And preferably BEFORE teenaged years when they still might listen and do not perceive themselves as super human.
Alcohol is wrapped in education with recreational drugs. We grown ups lose our credibility with our kids when we tell them things like "just say no" or that they are all equally bad , dangerous and serious. But they are not all the same. There are different risks with different drugs. There is next to no risk of inhibition loss or consciousness loss with pot and cocaine. Obviously they have different risks. But we need to REALLY educate our children.
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Only real, and thorough education aimed at both genders, and real punishment without victim blaming will decrease rape, but that's a lot more difficult than telling a girl not to drink, so far too many people don't want to deal with what needs to be done. We need to change our whole culture surrounding rape, and yet over and over again, it's the same argument, "girls shouldn't drink, end of story." Even if all girls stopped drinking, rapists would find another excuse, drinking is just the new short skirt people want to focus on so they don't have to deal with talking about sex, and when it is rape.
You know, of course, that no one is saying that. I would be really interested to hear about how you propose to effectively change our entire culture so that we don't have to educate our children about the dangers of alcohol?
I, personally, think we must have made some progress. The boys are charged and possibly facing detention until the age of 21. Once upon a time, blaming the victim would have involved no criminal activity for the perpetrator(s) at all. We have further to go.
I am not sure how the media feeling sorry for them is good for them. Seems to me that facing juvenile detention until 21 is pretty bad.
Because I don't think we ARE getting the message out to kids that drinking has real risk. I know the education that I am seeing out of the middle and high schools here is crap. It talks about addiction and health but does not touch on the risk associated with losing control. This is a message ALL of our children, boys and girls, need. And preferably BEFORE teenaged years when they still might listen and do not perceive themselves as super human.
Alcohol is wrapped in education with recreational drugs. We grown ups lose our credibility with our kids when we tell them things like "just say no" or that they are all equally bad , dangerous and serious. But they are not all the same. There are different risks with different drugs. There is next to no risk of inhibition loss or consciousness loss with pot and cocaine. Obviously they have different risks. But we need to REALLY educate our children.
You know, of course, that no one is saying that. I would be really interested to hear about how you propose to effectively change our entire culture so that we don't have to educate our children about the dangers of alcohol?
I, personally, think we must have made some progress. The boys are charged and possibly facing detention until the age of 21. Once upon a time, blaming the victim would have involved no criminal activity for the perpetrator(s) at all. We have further to go.
I've never seen a single discussion, article, poster etc. on rape that didn't include telling girls how important being careful with alcohol is in rape prevention, almost every single girl is taught this, that's why they often blame themselves if they had anything to drink. I see very little explaining to boys and girls what is legal consent means, and when sex becomes rape, and that it's crime no matter how much either drank. As I posted earlier a program in Canada that specifically addressed the boys, drinking, and what legal consent is decreased reports of rape by 10%.
Creating a program like that is a good start toward changing our culture. How about actually addressing the potential rapists, instead of just stopping at telling girls not to drink. BTW, I have never said DON'T teach girls about alcohol, this isn't an "either or" discussion so people need to stop arguing the idiotic idea that we are saying girls should just go out and get trashed. We are saying alcohol education alone isn't enough to stop rape.
If this had been done before the rape in OH maybe it wouldn't have happened, the boys would have known they couldn't use "they didn't know it was rape" excuse, and the media wouldn't have accepted this excuse, and put the focus on THEIR ruined lives, with many ignoring the girls pain. From what I understand it was the girls parents who took this to court, and insisted on prosecution because they happened to find out, the girl didn't want to, and many never report it because they are afraid that they will not be taken seriously if they have been drinking because they have constantly been told not to drink, so the common tendency for rape victims to blame themselves is only increased by ONLY focusing on the girls behavior.
I've never seen a single discussion, article, poster etc. on rape that didn't include telling girls how important being careful with alcohol is in rape prevention, almost every single girl is taught this, that's why they often blame themselves if they had anything to drink. I see very little explaining to boys and girls what is legal consent means, and when sex becomes rape, and that it's crime no matter how much either drank. As I posted earlier a program in Canada that specifically addressed the boys, drinking, and what legal consent is decreased reports of rape by 10%.
Creating a program like that is a good start toward changing our culture. How about actually addressing the potential rapists, instead of just stopping at telling girls not to drink. BTW, I have never said DON'T teach girls about alcohol, this isn't an "either or" discussion so people need to stop arguing the idiotic idea that we are saying girls should just go out and get trashed. We are saying alcohol education alone isn't enough to stop rape.
If this had been done before the rape in OH maybe it wouldn't have happened, the boys would have known they couldn't use "they didn't know it was rape" excuse, and the media wouldn't have accepted this excuse, and put the focus on THEIR ruined lives, with many ignoring the girls pain. From what I understand it was the girls parents who took this to court, and insisted on prosecution because they happened to find out, the girl didn't want to, and many never report it because they are afraid that they will not be taken seriously if they have been drinking because they have constantly been told not to drink, so the common tendency for rape victims to blame themselves is only increased by ONLY focusing on the girls behavior.
So are you advocating NOT educating children about the risks of alcohol use? Because that is what it sounds like, which I find absurd.
So are you advocating NOT educating children about the risks of alcohol use? Because that is what it sounds like, which I find absurd.
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Originally Posted by detshen
BTW, I have never said DON'T teach girls about alcohol, this isn't an "either or" discussion so people need to stop arguing the idiotic idea that we are saying girls should just go out and get trashed. We are saying alcohol education alone isn't enough to stop rape.
I did not see that part! I don't think anyone is arguing we should not be educating our boys as well and whatever we can think of to change the bad attitudes in our communities. So this thread has gotten a little lost.
I did not see that part! I don't think anyone is arguing we should not be educating our boys as well and whatever we can think of to change the bad attitudes in our communities. So this thread has gotten a little lost.
There have been a few posters who adamantly refuse to discuss any ideas about rape prevention beyond keeping kids away from parties where people might be drinking, girls watching their glasses, etc. What I, and some others have been arguing is that can't be the end of rape discussions, kids also need detailed education about what rape is, what legal consent in sex is, that alcohol on either side never excuses this crime, and what the punishment will likely be.
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