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Do you believe that if only alcohol-free punch was served at this party that the rapes would have taken place? When I was in high school it was the wild kids where there was a lot of drinking that stuff happened.
Those parties I was allowed to attend where the strongest beverage was apple cider to go with doughnuts were a whole lot tamer.
Or maybe it's the out-of-control kids who are already rapists are the ones more likely to be at the all-night drunk fest. Either way -- it's best to keep your kids as far from the binge drinkers as you can.
My sister-in-law was raped by her boyfriend. I think hoping kids steer clear of alcohol is inadequate.
Monsters rape....alcohol or no alcohol. The sad thing about alcohol is that it suppresses inhibitions. It makes it a whole lot more difficult to push back feelings which are already in place, once that alcohol is on board. Sadly, as in your SIL's boyfriends case, some people simply don't need anything to push them over that edge. They lack the self-control naturally. They simply do what they want, when they want. Those boundaries simply do not exist. Sickening. When I think of what those little monsters did to that girl we've been discussing....it makes me sick to my stomach. My God....what some people are capable of.....and to think, there are people out there who are actually feeling SORRY for them. Get them off the street while they're young.
As he grows, I plan on defining consent as the presence of yes, and not the absence of no. This is generally a helpful definition for navigating a world shared with other people, but especially when it comes to sexual encounters. Along with The Talk about the birds and the bees, will be the talk about what consent is, and why it is important.
Parents who care enough, and are brave enough to think about, and have these conversations with their boys and their girls are a big part of the solution. We may not have all the perfect answers, and know exactly what to say, but our children are going to know that it's important to think about the feelings of others, and consider if our actions are appropriate when we interact with them. A child who has been taught all his life that other people's feelings matter as much as his own is much more likely to be the one who stands guard, and protects a girl who drank too much, or was drugged, or takes her home to safety rather than laughs, and videotapes while he, or others rape her.
Those boys were very typical rapists in that they were enjoying humiliating her, and having power over her, that's what rapists do. Not to mention she was barely, and at times it seems totally unconscious, she could have died from whatever she consumed, and their only thought was to rape, and make fun of her instead of take her to a hospital. I don't feel sorry for criminals who get caught and are punished, they chose to do this.
I agree! Okay, well, I wouldn't have thought that MY kids were normal, if at some point, they hadn't tried to skirt the rules a bit. Sometimes, the best lessons are mistakes we make. All we can do is hope that those mistakes aren't too big OR bad.
Well that's point isn't it? We know they will try to skirt the rules so we try to make the rules such that there is some room for error before BIG mistakes happen.
My sister-in-law was raped by her boyfriend. I think hoping kids steer clear of alcohol is inadequate.
Not all rape is influenced by alcohol, but some are. We can influence the ones that are alcohol induced. Just because we can't stop all rape by limiting underage kids exposure to alcohol fueled parties that doesn't mean we shouldn't limit their exposure. If we can stop some rapes from happening, or at least keep our own children out of harm's way, we should do that. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
Not all rape is influenced by alcohol, but some are. We can influence the ones that are alcohol induced. Just because we can't stop all rape by limiting underage kids exposure to alcohol fueled parties that doesn't mean we shouldn't limit their exposure. If we can stop some rapes from happening, or at least keep our own children out of harm's way, we should do that. Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.
That's all pretty obvious isn't it? I think the debate is that some people think that by seemingly controlling their children's environment absolutely, that no harm will befall the child, and therefore no discussion is necessary. Sadly, however much we were to wish it were so, it just isn't.
So I had a conversation with my 12 year old. It started with my asking him how he thought dh treated me. What does Dad think of women and male/ female relationships. His word were equal, respectful, loving. Woop! I then told him what happened. I told him that there were perps, camera people and people standing around. He volunteered that he would have called the authorities. We discussed rape in terms like sub-human, painful, violent.
I dont know. He is only 12. But he already shows signs of sexual interest. I hope we are modelling, living and teaching caring, honesty and respect.
Scary topic. Thanks op for brining it up.
That's all pretty obvious isn't it? I think the debate is that some people think that by seemingly controlling their children's environment absolutely, that no harm will befall the child, and therefore no discussion is necessary. Sadly, however much we were to wish it were so, it just isn't.
But the flip side of that is what I mentioned above. Since we can't stop all rapes by trying to keep our kids out of bad situations we shouldn't bother. That's silly. If you can do simple things to lower the risk that your 16 year old is out all night drinking then you should.
It does stand to reason that if you can keep your kids out of some bad situations you lower the risk that they will be in a bad situation. Lowering the risk doesn't mean there is zero risk.
My 8th grader is in a situation with a friend of his that makes me scratch my head. She is a 14 year old 8th grader. Her father is a wrestling coach and she is a wrestling team manager. My son is a wrestler and has been friends with her since 6th grade. This season I noticed that he wasn't as friendly with her as he had been in past years so I asked him about it. He told me that she was "heading for disaster." I asked him what he meant and he told me that she had changed, she didn't care about her grades any more, she was hanging out with older guys, and the way she talked to her mother on the phone bothered him.
My son is a bit of an old man in a teenagers body so I listened but I didn't take him all that seriously. I figured they had just grown apart as they grew older. After all my other boys didn't have the same friends in HS that they had in 6th grade (they stay in the same school). I found out later, from another 8th grader who is still part of my son's group of friends that the other girl's mother allows her to be picked up at home by other teens, and hang out wherever she wants for most of the day/evening on the weekends. I know some of the HS kids she is hanging out with and they are reckless kids. One wound up burning his back at a bonfire party. He was drunk and fell into the fire pit. Another broke his kneecap running from the police.
I think her parents are just happy to have her out of the house. She has gotten snippy and nasty as she entered her early teens. If something happens to her it will not necessarily be her fault, but what's difference who's fault it is? Nobody wants their child to be the victim of sexual assault, or to be killed in an alcohol fueled auto accident. Her parents are allowing her to engage in risky behavior that carries a high risk of some bad outcome. They could lower the risk by imposing some rules on her. They will not necessarily be able to completely remove the risk, but why would you allow a 14 year old girl to run wild like that without at least trying to keep her safer? She isn't even in HS yet.
The fact is that many rapists don't realize what they are doing is actually rape. In studies where the word rape was never used, men openly admitted to raping. The majority who did actually admitted to raping repeatedly.
I'm sure if the same study was given to women that there would be plenty who "unknowingly raped" people, too.
So I agree with the OP... The problem isn't alcohol. The main problem is that parents/teachers don't talk to teens in depth about consent or the various forms of sexual abuse. If they aren't taught about these things, how can you expect them to know better? "No means no" is not as effective as teaching "ONLY yes means yes." Someone can be raped without ever saying the word no.
Even if your child is not sexually active they should know about the importance of consent. Their friends may be sexually active & the rape culture will only change if bystanders start speaking up. If they hear their friends joking about getting a girl/guy drunk so they can have sex with them, your son/daughter should know that is NEVER a joking matter. That is rape. It's not funny, & that behavior should never be enabled.
Just think all it takes is for one person to believe that is not really that bad, since everyone just laughs about it anyway & no one ever tells them it is wrong.
Last edited by thethreefoldme; 03-22-2013 at 07:34 AM..
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