GF Son been grounded all year, wants to get him phone and scooter parts for christmas (legal, out of control)

[helpmediscipline]

Background: my gf husband who was controlling, steroid freak pill popper and downright nasty to his wife died in a car crash right before she was about to divorce him. he called her despicable names MODERATOR CUT etc. he accused her of cheating constantly. they went on a cruise once and he flipped out on her when she wore a bikini and accused her of looking at other men. This husband kept her pretty much in the house for mroe then 10 years and she shut down and let him do everything She slowly but surely gave up on disciplining her children because her husband would always let the kids do what they want even if they got in trouble.

3 months prior their house burnt down and she thinks her husband tried to kill her(the husbands father tried to kill his wife and went to jail for it) the day of the fire none of the 3 kids were home the husband took the dogs and He was being very nice to her all of a sudden that day. When my gf tried to discipline one of her 3 kids(mainly the oldest one) the son would go to the father and he would say it was ok and then my gf and her husband would get in a fight.when he finally passed she was relieved but everyone expected her to be mouring and it was really weird for her. she was addicted to oxy pills for about 5-6 years snorting about 6 a day and at the worst point 10 a day. the husband sold the pills so it was free but at a cost. she was already out of love with her husband for years As she put it after the first 6 months she started seeing how controlling he was. and the last year started realizing he may be cheating on her. and found out he was after he died when he found a separate phone in his car.

Im 38 years old and have had a previous GF with kids who were similarly out of control and got them much more behaved as well. As far as my upbringing I am a very well rounded individual and when I was younger I hated how my step parents brought me up but when Igot to the age of around 33 I started to realize they were RIGHT...

My new girlfriend I met at a friends birthday party, first time she was out in over 10 years...2 months after her husband died and even though it was fast we got along great. I got her into a rehab for pills and shes been good for over 6 months and has been much happier!. My girlfriend as of now I met in january 2013 introduced me to her 3 kids and they are great, however there was no discipline at all everything was starting to work with her two younger kids a girl age 7 and a boy age 8 the third son is 13. While the younger son and daughter are behaving much better the 13 year old has been a problem since I first met all of them.


I need everyone's opinion on this: If you had a son who has been grounded all year (since march)except for 2 weeks out of the year for being defiant, not listening, lying, disrespecting and manipulating- which are not all separate times, its EACH time he does all of these things. Every time it happens like this, he is told not to do something, gets caught doing it(defiant, not listening)), (Lies) and says he didn't, yells at his mother at the top of his lungs(disrespecting), is told to go to his room and doesn't go(disrespecting, defiant), when he is grounded he acts all nice to his brother and sister, talks with them, coerces them into letting him use the computers when hes grounded does chores without talking back(manipulating)-why is that manipulative? because as soon as he is not grounded he calls his bro and sis names, threatens them, yells at them, punches and hurts them. this entire situation repeats every time he is grounded and then not grounded.

HERE ARE THE THINGS HES DONE: March,FIRST GROUNDING: found out he had purchased over $600 of music on his iphone 4 due to the CC bill, then pulled up all the purchase history on the computer through the sons itunes account. When we asked him about it he said he didnt do it and all the music he purchased on his phone said FREE, meanwhile any song purchased on a phone tells you how much it is before it is downloaded. he still denied it. he got grounded for a month from everything except tv(I tried to get tv taken away but mom wouldnt do it), no phone, laptop, scooting biking or xbox etc. he was still mean to his brother and sister and had days added AT FIRST then a week due to his cruelty to his brother and sister and sneaking on face book. HE WAS TOLD UNTIL HE CAN BEHAVE GOOD HE WILL NOT GET A PHONE.

SECOND GROUNDING(2-3 days later after getting off being grounded): He told his sister to get money out of his mothers purse by threatening her if she didnt, I opened the garage to see her hand in her purse and pulling money out and david standing by the door waiting for the money. this time he was grounded from everything even TV.

THIRD GROUNDING: he kept asking about trading his new BEATS headphones($300) he got for christmas for scooter parts we said no constantly and he threw a tantrum and got grounded for a week for flipping out and cursing at his mom.

FOURTH GROUNDING: SAME AS THIRD GROUNDING,(tantrum about trading beats for scooter parts) this time mom flip flopped and let him watch tv(which I was against).

FIFTH GROUNDING: after specifically being told not to and being grounded two times because of his tantrums about it HE TRADED THE BEATS FOR A SCOOTER. he told us it was a friends scooter at first then changed it to his friend gave him a scooter because he wasn't scooting anymore (very fishy no kids give away expensive scooters) and then I notice his beats were missing, grounded for two weeks and had a week added for being mean to his brother and sister.

SIXTH GROUNDING: his mom told him to settle down because he started hitting his brother during lunch at a boat dock resturaunt, he didnt stop then she took his iphone away and then started slamming the restaurant table(outside right next to the river- we came by our boat), he kept bickering and his mom said if you don't stop I'm throwing your phone in the water He says" you wont do it" and to my surprise right after he said that SHE THREW IT IN THE RIVER!! He flipped out even more, 1 week went to 2weeks then 3 weeks and he finally calmed down. he had the nerve to say when I'm done being grounded can i get a new iphone 5..

SEVENTH GROUNDING: Again, he traded, this time a full scooter worth over $280 for a scooter worth $200 bux to trade that for a pair of scooter bars worth $110(seriously?) This time we took the son back to the kids house he traded for the other scooter and got the original scooter back grounded for 2 weeks without any electronics, scootering but his mom let him watch tv.

EIGHTH GROUNDING: 2 days after not being grounded he asks me if he can bring his brothers scooter to a friend because he just wants to look at it I specifically told him the scooter better come back the same way and he says it will. He comes back and of course his brothers scooter is now not the same. He tried to justify it by saying this time its a good deal, his mom and i both tell him you were told not to do anything and he had said nothing will happen. grounded for another 2 weeks no electronics OR TV and a month of no scootering or biking(no riding anything) which run consecutively with the regular grounding.

NINTH GROUNDING:2 days after he gets off being grounded he has 2 friends over (ITS RAINING OUT) and he rides his friends bike for a little bit. his mom lets him slide and so do I (MISTAKE). then he tells us his friends got him a bike to ride (a third bike)and we were both like ok we let him slide( thing is he fell on this bike while I was watching him ride it and skinned his knee) anyway he comes back with his friends later on in the night and I started to think how are his friends getting a bike for him which was better then what his friends were riding? I only saw the bike from far away but it was a freestyle bike for sure. Recently a friend of my girlfriends son was in the process of moving and we were keeping his bike in our garage. I decide to go into the garage and low and behold THAT BIKE HAD WET TIRES ON IT. my gf son immediately denied it, tried to get his friends to deny it(they didnt say anything) his mother told him to go to his room and he sat there and screamed NO, she asked 2 more times quietly and he screamed back NO, his mom got him up and brought him towards his room but he stopped right by his door, he started yelling at his mom said she was being mean and still would not get in his room, I got involved he lied on the floor in front of his room and started kicking at my legs HARD, he hyperextended my knee cap and I yelled at him you want to break my knee? he finally got in his room he was grounded for a week and this time is not allowed outside his room unless he has to go to the bathroom

Now, i know these grounding don't add up to a 8-9 months of grounding but there were groundings I don't remember because he was misbehaving all the time and all I know is hes been grounded since march with only around 1-2 weeks of good behavior. His mother has been constantly crying and very very emotional from these last two groundings have kept her up all night with NO SLEEP.

he gave us a wish list for christmas, over $400 in scooter parts, xbox one$500, xbox games etc. Hes already getting a leather jacket, sneakers, xbox games and other misc presents.

My girlfriend and I have been arguing over the fact that he does not deserve scooter parts or a smart phone since both of them are the main reasons for him being defiant. After her making things up as to why he should get them, constant excuses etc. She has confessed she is scared her son is going to hate her if he does not get what he wants. I had said No way to a smart phone and if anything get him a phone that only makes calls. furthermore she has said she wants to have a nice christmas with her kids. does that not seem like she is rewarding her son by getting hima phone and scooter parts just to make sure christmas is nice and HE doesnt flip out so she doesnt have to deal with it?

I understand the oldest son lost their father I lost my mother at 10 years old and lsot my father at 33 I know what its like to live with people other then your parents as my father could not take me in when my mother died as they were not together anymore. I ended up moving in with my mothers brother and his wife.

I dont think after 9 months of trying to get him in line and behaving better warrants getting him christmas presents that directly are related to the defiancy that he has constantly done throughout the year. Regardless if the father has passed away. By my girlfriends own submission she is scared her son is going to hate her and is trying to reward defiancy. Because Multiple times her son has said to her you hate me.. The fact is he knows I am catching him in the act and he doesnt like it and is trying to manipulate the situation to make her feel bad for him. He rarely brings up his fathers death. The last time he got in trouble with his fatehr alive he practically choked the kid out and ive never laid a hand on the kid. and both his mother and I have asked him when he gets in trouble how do you think your father would react to this and he tells us hed probably beat him up bad. frankly the son is lucky his father past away because his father would have hurt him so bad that he would end up hating his father.

please help PLEASE I need your opinions about this whole phone and scooter part thing. I will show this to my girlfriend. Im doing my best to keep this relationship together. I know this is a long thread I obviously love and care about the relationship otherwise I would not post this.

[Kayekaye]

That's an awful lot of money. I wouldn't buy him anything but a sweater and stuff like that. Make him earn money by working around the house and a merit chart for good behavior to buy his expensive toys. There are lots of books about this, even at the library. Stop buying all these expensive toys. NO xbox, scooters, phones, ect. That's way too much for a kid 13 years old. I would buy one of these expensive toys at the most once a year ONLY if he behaved. But he does need Christmas presents, just not these.

But there is a whole lot more going on here than a discipline problem. This kid (and her others) have live a life from hell with a domineering dad and a checked out drug popping mom. So I'm not surprised he is acting out. I would look into some intensive FAMILY counseling because all parties are playing a part in the dysfunction going on here. Glad you care.

[Mattie]

So, essentially a year of grounding, with no improvement in behavior? Maybe it's time to try something else?

Perhaps a little control over his own behavior is in order, but if his own mother thinks nothing of throwing his phone in the water, why is he expected to exhibit any impulse control?
Does anybody ever find this child doing good? It doesn't sound like it, mistake #1.
His mother is trying to buy his cooperation, mistake #2.
You are getting involved with discipline for a child who isn't your own without any legal right to do so, mistake #3.

Did the boy ask for a leather jacket? If he wants scooter parts, why was the jacket purchased? There isn't much point in asking kids for a wish list if it's going to be ignored.

This is a train wreck, and all the grounding in the world isn't going to make it better. Definitely look into therapy.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by Kayekaye

That's an awful lot of money. I wouldn't buy him anything but a sweater and stuff like that. Make him earn money by working around the house and a merit chart for good behavior to buy his expensive toys. There are lots of books about this, even at the library. Stop buying all these expensive toys. NO xbox, scooters, phones, ect. That's way too much for a kid 13 years old. I would buy one of these expensive toys at the most once a year ONLY if he behaved. But he does need Christmas presents, just not these.

But there is a whole lot more going on here than a discipline problem. This kid (and her others) have live a life from hell with a domineering dad and a checked out drug popping mom. So I'm not surprised he is acting out. I would look into some intensive FAMILY counseling because all parties are playing a part in the dysfunction going on here. Glad you care.

Good advice.

[helpmediscipline]

Originally Posted by Mattie

So, essentially a year of grounding, with no improvement in behavior? Maybe it's time to try something else?

Perhaps a little control over his own behavior is in order, but if his own mother thinks nothing of throwing his phone in the water, why is he expected to exhibit any impulse control?
Does anybody ever find this child doing good? It doesn't sound like it, mistake #1.
His mother is trying to buy his cooperation, mistake #2.
You are getting involved with discipline for a child who isn't your own without any legal right to do so, mistake #3.

Did the boy ask for a leather jacket? If he wants scooter parts, why was the jacket purchased? There isn't much point in asking kids for a wish list if it's going to be ignored.

This is a train wreck, and all the grounding in the world isn't going to make it better. Definitely look into therapy.

his mother TOLD HIM if he keeps it up she will throw it in the water at least 3 times. DUDE I wrote a lot of information and I cant be prefect with all the details.

the child does do good things however he is being bad way more and when he is good we do let him know. ive spent time with him doing things and always let him know when hes doing good

yes his mother is trying to buy his cooperation

the mother has told all her kids they need to listen to me because I am her boyfriend and may end up being thier step father... and I forgot to mention it but after the 3rd or 4th time he was grounded I stepped back and did not discipline him and left it up to the mom(we would talk in private when I caught him and talk about the punishment).

he asked for a leather jacket.

the problem with him constantly being defiant is the mother flip flops when he gets grounded, sometimes with tv other times without tv and when she walks by the tv and hes sitting there watching it she is not saying anyhting to him. I see all this and i bring it up to her and tell her she needs to be able to confront him about it right away. everytime he is sitting there watching tv HE KNOWS he isnt suppose to and thinks its ok because she didnt say anything(he says mommy saw me watching tv and didnt say anything) and then there are issues where he gets punished for less time for doing something that was worse then previously.

I bring this up to her and she understand she needs to be more consistant...

[helpmediscipline]

Originally Posted by Kayekaye

That's an awful lot of money. I wouldn't buy him anything but a sweater and stuff like that. Make him earn money by working around the house and a merit chart for good behavior to buy his expensive toys. There are lots of books about this, even at the library. Stop buying all these expensive toys. NO xbox, scooters, phones, ect. That's way too much for a kid 13 years old. I would buy one of these expensive toys at the most once a year ONLY if he behaved. But he does need Christmas presents, just not these.

But there is a whole lot more going on here than a discipline problem. This kid (and her others) have live a life from hell with a domineering dad and a checked out drug popping mom. So I'm not surprised he is acting out. I would look into some intensive FAMILY counseling because all parties are playing a part in the dysfunction going on here. Glad you care.

Yes the problem stems from all the kids being spoiled rotten when the father was alive and after the mother gave up on discipline because the father would always shoot her down..

the son even admitted that when his fatehr was alive that when he got in trouble and his mom tried disciplining him he WOULD GO to his father because HE KNEW he would let him off and KNEW they would fight after he went to the father... the kid is very manipulative.

the younger kids are quite well behaved now.they love me the daughter calls me dad already which I am not comfortable with because I am not married to her mom. the younger son is AMAZING. he knows that when he gets in trouble he has to be disciplined but for the most part HE BARELY gets in any trouble because he uses his head and is very respectful. the daughter was very clingy to the mother and Both of us have toned that down tremendously.

the older son and youngest daughter are an issue because the daughter unlike the young brother sees what the oldest son does and does her own twist with it. she gets disciplined for it. but I see it happening and it all starts with the oldest son.

Ive brought up going to a shrink and shes ok with it. problem is christmas is around the corner and she is still arguing her BS excuses even though I know why she is doing it and she doesnt want to hear it. MEanwhile it is detrimental to him because hes gonna get scooter parts and a phone even though he has been so misbehaved all year. and it is making me second guess marrying her and having kids with her.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by helpmediscipline

Yes the problem stems from all the kids being spoiled rotten when the father was alive and after the mother gave up on discipline because the father would always shoot her down..

the son even admitted that when his fatehr was alive that when he got in trouble and his mom tried disciplining him he WOULD GO to his father because HE KNEW he would let him off and KNEW they would fight after he went to the father... the kid is very manipulative.

the younger kids are quite well behaved now.they love me the daughter calls me dad already which I am not comfortable with because I am not married to her mom. the younger son is AMAZING. he knows that when he gets in trouble he has to be disciplined but for the most part HE BARELY gets in any trouble because he uses his head and is very respectful. the daughter was very clingy to the mother and Both of us have toned that down tremendously.

the older son and youngest daughter are an issue because the daughter unlike the young brother sees what the oldest son does and does her own twist with it. she gets disciplined for it. but I see it happening and it all starts with the oldest son.

Ive brought up going to a shrink and shes ok with it. problem is christmas is around the corner and she is still arguing her BS excuses even though I know why she is doing it and she doesnt want to hear it. MEanwhile it is detrimental to him because hes gonna get scooter parts and a phone even though he has been so misbehaved all year. and it is making me second guess marrying her and having kids with her.

Frankly, I would advise you to RUN AWAY and RUN away fast from this nightmare.

[helpmediscipline]

Originally Posted by germaine2626

Frankly, I would advise you to RUN AWAY and RUN away fast from this nightmare.

YEA but thats the weak way. I am strong and ive made good progress with the 2 younger kids and some progress with the older son. he doesnt yell and hit his brother and sister anymore. I am worried that if my girlfriend gets these presents for her son it will take away all the discipline we have made progress on with him and we will be back to square one.

he consistantly still acts like a total jerk to his brother and sister when he is not grounded. Because of that I know that when he is grounded he is manipulatively being nice to them and the progress is still moving along and soon he will be disciplined on how he acts towards to his brother and sister when he isnt grounded. right now he is being disciplined for not listening to the grounding rules. We cant do two things at once. BABY STEPS

how about opinions on what I am talking about: does this kid deserve a smart phone and scooter parts that directly correlate with his defiant behavior... the more posts about that topic the betetr as that is the reason my GF and I are arguing and that is the reason for the post.

[germaine2626]

Originally Posted by germaine2626

Frankly, I would advise you to RUN AWAY and RUN away fast from this nightmare.

Originally Posted by helpmediscipline

YEA but thats the weak way. I am strong.

how about opinions on what I am talking about: does this kid deserve a smart phone and scooter parts that directly correlate with his defiant behavior... the more posts about that topic the betetr as that is the reason my GF and I are arguing and that is the reason for the post.

If my son exhibited that type of behavior he would certainly not receive a smart phone or scooter parts and certainly not both,

BTW we did not pay for a smart phone for our daughter until she was in college and had a volunteer internship located in a "sketchy" neighborhood. part of her job was to give presentations on HIV & AIDS awareness and prevention to prison inmates living in locked wards and in prison half-way houses. We felt that having the map search options, etc would be quite valuable and help keep her safe.

Does your GF's 13 year son use the smart phone for safety reasons? for a part time job? to help use the bus system? to use during homework? Or does he just play videogames on it? If not being used productively, it is my opinion is he does not need a smart phone.

Another thing is check out is how he uses the smart phone at school? Is he just using at lunch and on the bus home or is he using it to annoy his peers and disrupt his classes? Has he received detentions or "infractions" from school regarding the smart phone? If yes, then he shouldn't receive another smart phone.

Can you GF and you actually afford all of those new phones (I'm a little confused about how/why they are being thrown in the water and getting destroyed) and their fees? That ends up being pretty expensive.

BTW Is he in a program for emotionally disturbed/behaviorally disturbed students? If yes, ask his special education teacher his/her opinion and ask how he uses the phone at school. The teacher probably will have some extremely valuable insights.

[malamute]

Consistency is one of the most important aspects of parenting.

I think she needs to get him gifts that aren't related to his problems. Who is paying for the gifts? The money being spent on him seems very high to me. Your gf seems to be spoiling him rotten.