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I firmly believe you spoil kids. I also firmly believe you yank that stuff away the minute they get out of line. The recurring theme here is the scooter. I hate telling people not to buy their kids things for Christmas because (again) I believe in spoiling. In this case I would take the scooter away and CERTAINLY not buy him parts for it.
Therapy is the only solution to this problem and soon imo before this boy is big enough to physically threaten his mom.
Do not physically discipline a child that is not yours especially.
While you may be in the right about the Xmas gifts, it doesn't matter. And, even if your girlfriend comes around, you will soon be back in this same spot over something else. These people are locked into a dance/pattern they've been doing for a long time.
Gently, you probably have your own issues. Why are you trying to fix all these people? Usually that's a way to control or a way to avoid our own issues. Or, since you relate to this boy, a way to make what happened to you in childhood better by making his better. It doesn't work.
Even without therapy, your gf is more likely to step up if you back away from the issues with her children. Let her deal with, screw it up and figure it out when she reaches her breaking point with him.
please help PLEASE I need your opinions about this whole phone and scooter part thing. I will show this to my girlfriend. Im doing my best to keep this relationship together. I know this is a long thread I obviously love and care about the relationship otherwise I would not post this.
I think that if you grounded him 9 times you need to try something else. I assume he is going to get a Christmas present. As to whether you should get him everything on his list, that is really up to you. Different families spend different amount of money on the holidays. My kid generally get around $200 of gifts each but that really shouldn't matter to you.
I think that the boy needs professional help. His father was a control freak, his mother has been a junkie. You are coming in as the white knight, but he might not see it that way. I don't think just grounding him is going to change his behavior.
Being grounded constantly for that long I don't think is good. I can see him feeling like there's no hope of anything being better if he is good. Not that I think anything he's done is okay, but I think you should make it within his power to change things. Like someone else said, let him earn things. Instead of punishing his bad behavior, reward good behavior. Maybe have a talk with him and tell him it's too late for Christmas, but if he can do specific things (don't make it vague because he has to know exactly what is expected of him, and don't make it a whole bunch of rules, but a goal that he can reasonably reach), that he can earn privileges and even an iPhone and scooter parts. He could also have chores to do for money, but I mean his demeanor and attitude and lying, etc. has to change.
My advice is based on advice given to me by a pediatrician when my kids were younger. She said not to use all your ammunition at once. You don't ground them and take away all their privileges in one fell swoop and ground them for an extended period. Instead take away a privilege and make them earn it back.
On the other hand, I agree with the person who says RUN!
The groundings, saying no, taking his things away, etc. etc. etc. They are all bandaids for a problem that requires in-depth, long-term treatment.
First and foremost, the mom needs counseling herself. She needs to find her self-esteem again so she can BE a mother to her son and earn his love and respect in the ways good mothers do, rather than buy his love and respect.
Separately, they need family counseling to figure out how to work on the family unit as a whole. The therapy will help them get to the underlying causes of the cracks and holes in the family dynamic, and slowly help to not just repair but rebuild them.
I don't know where you live, but I highly suggest looking into programs similar to this one that is offered in my city. My sister died recently, and left behind a 6 year old son. He has been attending this facility, as well as two other children of people I know who have lost one of their parents. It is a highly respected program that allows the child to focus solely on the grief process, understanding the anger and sadness within them that happens when a parent dies, and helps them to keep on the right track while they go through this process. The grief process is considerably difficult, sometimes damn near impossible, for ADULTS to get through on their own. Why would anyone EVER expect a child to be capable of doing so? The center in my city is called The Dougy Center, if you would like to investigate this place so you can possibly find and discuss with his mother the need for him to enroll in a place like this. Regardless of the relationship he had with his father, and regardless of the kind of person his father was, he still feels a massive loss. He needs help with that alone.
Other than suggesting these avenues to his mother, it is highly recommended if not extremely important that you STAY OUT OF any one of these appointments. She needs to work on her problems alone. So does he, and so does their family. If at some point the counselor believes you should come in for some appointments because you will be joining their family permanently, then so be it. Other than that, it'd be a great idea to keep your nose out of it.
I am in no way trying to come across rude. Just straight to the point. The issues you've asked about for advice here aren't really important in the slightest. This child, and the mother, needs intensive help to get OUT of the abuser-abusee, enabler style relationship that they've had engrained in their heads for way too long. That is a process they must go through alone, so they can fully trust themselves to be strong individuals.
I do agree with the comments made regarding a stepparent should not be involved in discipline. Technically, you're not even a stepparent. You're the boyfriend. You can offer your insight and advice to her if she asks for it, but that's it. My brother and his girlfriend have this issue as well, I watch them fight over how she disciplines her 6 year old son. He tries to intervene. His father is a heroine/methadone addict, quite a fitting influence for a 6 year old boy. He is having difficulty going from a structured and disciplined household where his actions have consequences, to his dads where he is spoiled to no end and eats nothing but McDonald's and doughnuts. I see how hard it is for them to deal with that. The boy you're talking about is much older and has had much more time for such issues from his father to ingrain itself within his heart and soul. I find myself having trouble not offering my advice and input when I hear them even venting or arguing with each other about it. I know it is difficult when you care about those involved. But try your best.
As a side note, from the sounds of it, money is not an issue when it comes to buying him an endless amount of expensive items. All of that money could be filtered solely into the counseling. Therapy for the family, the boy, and the mom will be so much more beneficial to their lives, for the rest of their lives... iPhones and Xbox's and scooters only last a few years, if you're lucky.
All the best to this family, and to you as well.
Last edited by Jaded; 12-22-2013 at 12:46 AM..
Reason: Broken link
It seems some posters have not completely read what I have written and to my own acceptance I did not put all the details in the first post because just writing that entire first post was very strenuous and mind consuming. Doing my best to remember all the issues and what happened and what the disciplary action was.
I did however follow up with more information and I am not sure some of the posters read that. I did say I took a step back and I did stop disciplining the son and I left it up to his mother to discipline him by herself. What I started to do when i took a step back was watch what she would do when he did something against her rules. When the disciplinary action she took was not weighed compared to others and made the disciplinary action lighter on something that weighed in worse then other disciplinary actions, I spoke up to her and brought up she needs to weigh it properly and be consistent.
Llike I said previously I have dealt with almost the same situation as her son is going through. I have also had major breakthroughs as to why I was the way I was when I was younger. I have taken courses that are involved in self expression for ones self, self expression with society, community and world, communication with oneself, communication with society, community and world, as well as Self expression and leadership. I volunteered at the place where I learned all of these tools for life and was a great coach to others in the courses.
Because of the courses I've taken my ways of thinking has changed as to how I percieve others towards me and me towards the world. I see what the son is projecting where others may take it personal and think the son is talking about them when in reality he's talking about himself. Many many many people do this exact thing, especially when they dont accept true accountability, integrity or power without them there is no leadership or possibilities. Sure people get by without having them all but there is always something running them in the background when they are not fully accountable and accept things for what they are instead of avoiding it.
Going into yourself and unwrapping all the BS in our lives and communicating to ourselves and others that were affected by our actions is a very difficult task. It means to tell yourself to stand up and take your actions and disect them to try and find the root of why what happened did. Once its dissected and you understand why you did it you have to forgive yourself and learn from it. If it has to do with another person no matter how hard it may be to communicate with that other person you have to swallow your pride and communicate with them and let them know why you did what you did, now that you understand why you acted the way you did. This leads to a weight being lifted off of you and ultimately love of oneself. which is the whole point of life, if you dont love yourself then you can not love others.
To leave a relationship because of problems is the easy way out and does nothing for the creation of possibility. There is a point where you have to make a decision when its too much. Like i always say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
I had written in the posts before that I am starting to think I may need to get out of this relationship, because I want to have kids and get married however I do not want them to be in a situation where my kids are not being brought up in a fashion that teaches good manners and that takes two people as a team. However I kept deleting it because I did not want my girlfriend to read it and get all upset. I have said this to her in person and she has said im giving her an ultimatum and threatening her with a break up because shes not listening to the advice I have given her and she gets very upset about it. Its her choice to take my advice or not. All I did was tell her what may happen if we dont get a hold on the sons behavior, because its the truth
I think I said before we have had progress with the 2 younger kids and with the older son as well. However I know that the younger kids minds are more pliable at thier age then the 13 year old son. Someone mentioned his life is ingrained in to his heart and mind at this point and I understand this very well and understand it is very crucial to get him out of this behavior AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. because of the fact that his way of thinking is slowly going to become permanent until he is around the age of 30+, where he starts to realize a lot of the things he did as a kid were not right and his mother and I were only looking out for his best interests but he was too blinded by his anger. That is something I have brought up to him, however the only way to really understand it is to experience it yourself unless your smart enough to take another persons word for it.
some people posted how grounding him is not working. But did you read where I wrote that the mother flip flops and lets things slide, instead of being consistent which is the most important part of getting a kid like this in line. I have brought up when she does this and she just gets mad. I tell her it sends him mixed signals. I see him do exactly what his mother has told him not to do when he is grounded. For example not being allowed to watch tv and his mom walks by him and he sitting with his brother watching tv and she says nothing. Then if another adult walks in the room and says why are you watching tv, your grounded, he says my mom walked by and didnt say anything. This alerts me that when his mom did walk by HE DID KNOW HE WASNT SUPPOSE TO BE WATCHING TV. When I bring that up to her and let her know the way to stop that is by being consistent and keeping that radar in her head as to the rules she set forth for him being grounded.
when I see him doing things hes not suppose to do I dont say anything to him. I bring it up to my GF, problem is she says something to him from the other room and he is smart enough that he knows I just told her and that is an issue. Instead she could walk to the room and say it so it does not look like I told her. Shes getting better with that. However she needs to be able to do it on her own without me. The thing is she has had no help in the form of making good parental decisions, the grandparents don't help, if anything they add tot he problem, her friends don't help but all of them now bring up how her kids were and how much better they are because I am around. The fact remains as someone said she does need to be able tohave her kids in line without me. However if she has no good guideline and someone always being there to remind her so she does hone those skills it will be much harder to be able to break out of the traits that have been instilled in her and her kids. I am a stand for her integrity, leadership and responsibility. She does not like it all the time and no one should however I love her and i am not the type of person to sit idly by when i see someone I love hurting themselves and their kids by not doing what needs to be done. Excuses are made and things dont change that way. Action changes things.
The oldest son is the hardest to deal with because hes older and is more set in his thinking, he has gotten away with not getting in trouble for a long time because he manipulates his mothers authority and would pawn his parents against each other. This kids behavior has been out of control and its because he was not disciplined in the correct way to learn from his bad actions and when he is in trouble he still does not accept responsibility, he apologizes and says he was wrong just to get through the conversation because he knows if he doesn't say it he may get in more trouble. his actions are showing he does not mean what he says when he apologizes. He is very angry because he is finally being disciplined and I have his mothers back and he cant run to his father to pawn them against one another so he can get out of trouble.
Understand that this son has not been disciplined for a good majority of his life. Because of this the discipline he is getting now seems severe to him when it is not that bad, since he was barely disciplined before. furthermore all the things he did get away with is part of the reason he is so defiant because NOW he may be STILL thinking from his past and thinks he can get away with it but now he doesn't and hes becoming frantic and desperate because HE LIKED HOW IT WAS.
We have asked him about how he use to pawn his parents against one another to get out of trouble and how he knew his parents would fight everytime when he would manipulate the situation. we asked him if he liked seeing his parents argue and he said no and then we asked him why he did it and he said because he knew he would get out of trouble.
This kid is very very very smart however he is using his smartness in a evil way and the fact is our disciplining him ISNT CRAP compared to what will happen to him when he is out in the real world and he acts like that. Police do not let you off for lying to them and manipulating the situation, they get even more pissed off and pissed because the person is disrespecting the other persons intelligence not being accountable for their actions and it makes it worse on the person in trouble.
If you havent lost your parents at a young age there is NO WAY YOU CAN UNDERSTAND. Kids are very resilient. when i was young and my mother died when I was 9 I was sad but it didn't effect me the way people think a parent dying does. If you go the wrong way and figure out that you can use your parents death as way to make others feel bad that's a step in the direction of manipulation. I was guilty of that and my step parents got it out of my system real quick. I was brought up with a step parent that had a PHD in psychology and it turns out I was better at it then her. For a long time I have had the ability to see both sides of a situation and the truth of the matter. Not everyone can do that without proper schooling, when I did my courses for self expression etc, I had come to find out I was a lot like what they were teaching people to become instead of this person full of masks and things they hide behind. I am not by any means bounded by societal norms and never was. Because of this It allows me to see what is going on and know that my GF and I are heading in the right direction.
I know the main issue here is not the phone and the scooter parts, I know what the son is doing and I know what the mother is doing and I let her know. At one point early on I let her son know, i pretty much warned him that I am a very smart individual and he will be much better off being good then trying to get things over on us because it wont be tolerated.
I barely talk to him since I backed off, frankly I am pissed at him for how disrespectful he is towards his mother because I have spoken with him with is mother and we brought up that his life will be much easier if he listens and repsects his mothers rules and respects me because even though im just her boyfriend im still an adult,those convos would always end with yes i understand and ill do better, only to have his actions show it went in one ear and out the other. I have been holding it in and not talking to him about his disrespecting actions towards her because I have not found the words to communicate to him in a way that he will take our advice so he will have a happier life.
IN his own words to his mother friends he has said how cool I was and was always ranting about me. That is how I am, his brother and sister say the same thing, the difference is when the bro and sis are disciplined they dont hold grudges and accept that what they did was wrong and they both are happier because of it. No one is perfect and everyone gets pissed off at one another. The problem is a complicated one and we are working on it one by one.
this thread is part of the solution I have brought up counseling and other forms of disciplinary actions. We are looking into it. it was suppose to be done a while ago but my gf is going through the motions and working on being a better mother. this isnt the kind of thing that all of a sudden turns around and I understand this.
this thread is about the phone and scooter parts and is only a small part of the entire situation. the fact is these small things all add up and bit by bit can be solved. I posted this to show my girlfriend that buying the phone and scooter are only going to add to the problem that we are trying to solve.
all the things everyone is saying is great but its nothing we didnt know about before hand I gave all the background information so you all would have an understanding as to why the phone and scooter parts should not be given as a gift. frankly I think the amount of money she spends is way to much on her kids even if they were all very well behaved because it puts more emphasis on material assets instead of what really counts which is love and respect for your family and every other person in the world. As far as her son is concerned I dont think he should be getting any presents because of how bad he has been all year. I have read disciplinary books and understand about reward and punishment. I have also read about how if the kid was bad in December not giving presents to kids for Christmas because they were bad during december is bad for their psyche. My girlfriend was running with that excerpt from the one book however it didnt say give them gifts if they were bad all year. While it is a tough situation to not give gifts for christmas to a kid who has been bad all year because of the worry about the kid being sad throwing a tantrum and thinking that he will not love you anymore because you didnt get him any material assets for christmas. when in fact it is his actions that caused that to happen to him. Obviously he is getting gifts but he really shouldnt be getting anything he really wants because of his behavior until he can show us that he can be good and then we can finally start to reward him just like we said we would.
Therapy is the only solution to this problem and soon imo before this boy is big enough to physically threaten his mom.
Do not physically discipline a child that is not yours especially.
While you may be in the right about the Xmas gifts, it doesn't matter. And, even if your girlfriend comes around, you will soon be back in this same spot over something else. These people are locked into a dance/pattern they've been doing for a long time.
Gently, you probably have your own issues. Why are you trying to fix all these people? Usually that's a way to control or a way to avoid our own issues. Or, since you relate to this boy, a way to make what happened to you in childhood better by making his better. It doesn't work.
Even without therapy, your gf is more likely to step up if you back away from the issues with her children. Let her deal with, screw it up and figure it out when she reaches her breaking point with him.
shes already reached her breaking point and its part of the reason she is desperate and htinkign getting him a phone and scooter parts will help. When I know it wont.
The wisest discipline techniques don't necessarily work on 6 months-sober mom's new boyfriend. The kid has been through a revolving door of crap in his life, why would he shape up for this? Realistically....
because that is life, its an up and down roller coaster and the only way to better yourself is to break out of the past and work on the present. he needs counseling no doubt. saying why would he shape up is ridiculous because all of us at some point have been through a ****ty part of life and rebounded from it. the ones who havent are still screwed up and that is exactly what we are working on so it doesn't happen
because that is life, its an up and down roller coaster and the only way to better yourself is to break out of the past and work on the present. he needs counseling no doubt. saying why would he shape up is ridiculous because all of us at some point have been through a ****ty part of life and rebounded from it. the ones who havent are still screwed up and that is exactly what we are working on so it doesn't happen
You have boundary issues and it is absurd to think that a teen, whose mom brought in a new boyfriend to discipline while she's recently recovering from drug addiction, is going to be taken seriously. Nobody is going to read 10-12 paragraphs, sorry, so you can't blame people for not reading your last post.
DIY fix-it projects are for houses, not people's children. You said you've done this once before with another woman. And it looks like you are gone from their life too? One year into a relationship, you should be going out for dinner with her, not trying to fix her decades of misguided parenting after 6 months sobriety.
Another poster was correct about white knight syndrome, and it's the kids who lose. You are mom's new and probably temporary boyfriend. You can't see why he doesn't take you seriously?
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