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I asked the doctor about it being reported to CPS, since so many people here have mentioned that. He didn't think it would be reported unless I escalated it and asked for it to be reported. Though I guess I won't necessarily know if it has been reported until someone from CPS shows up at my door.
Another thing that doesn't make any sense. Your mandatory reporting laws are designed to protect the CHILD .. they are completely worthless if the parent is allowed to get into the mix and DECIDE whether it should be escalated. Sometimes children get confused and point their finger at the wrong person. Sometimes abusers convince children not to tell on THEM. Not saying anything has happened among family members, etc. in your family but mandatory reporting laws should NEVER be up to the parent to decide whether a report should be made.
Another thing that doesn't make any sense. Your mandatory reporting laws are designed to protect the CHILD .. they are completely worthless if the parent is allowed to get into the mix and DECIDE whether it should be escalated. Sometimes children get confused and point their finger at the wrong person. Sometimes abusers convince children not to tell on THEM. Not saying anything has happened among family members, etc. in your family but mandatory reporting laws should NEVER be up to the parent to decide whether a report should be made.
The doctor, is allowed to use his professional judgement to NOT report following an exam.
By report, the doctor talking to the OP may have meant a police report rather than report as in reporting to CPS. The OP is within her rights to make a police report (not that I think this situation warrants it), and in all likelihood that s what he means by escalate and by the parent deciding whether to not to report.
But, for the 10th time (at least) this is a special needs child with a history of telling fabrications. Mandatory reporters (like the guidance counselor and teachers) who work with this child (who likely has an IEP) are also allowed to use their professional judgement as to whether or not to report. Because the "mandatory" part is that they have to report if they suspect abuse, but if their interactions with this child (and the highly unlikely story that she was touched in the middle of class) make them think she was not abused they do not have to report.
Now the fact that the counselor would suggest skipping the doctor for a child complaining of pain, is very odd to me, but perhaps she did not have the whole story.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you appear to be actively looking for a boogeyman here. There is no physical evidence, the child is not upset by this situation, the story of the incident is so improbably as to be very, very unlikely, and this is a special needs child who has a history of fabricating stories. So instead of LOOKING for a bad guy here, I think the watchful approach is the correct one and ultimately the best one for the OPs child.
I am not saying that the OPs daughter is making this up nor I am saying that the OP should ignore it but IMHO too many people here on CD are looking at this situation as how they would handle a normal child, who basically can tell reality from fantasy, understands the passage of time, and comprehends things at an age appropriate level. Give your advice and suggestions to the OP, but Mom knows her daughter and the school knows her daughter and probably the pediatrician knows her daughter a lot better than we do.
PS. I do think that the girl should see a doctor, as she may have a UTI or some type of irritation, but I don't think that we should second guess the decisions of Mom & Dad.
I just have.to say that I grew up with several younger brothers who were considered special needs. The youngest was adopted and had FASD. Very severe. He had many of the problems that OP mentioned her daughter having - the difficulty telling time, making up stories, trouble telling between fantasy and reality, etc. It is so true a lot of people are responding to this as they would a "ordinary" and non challenged child. I personally think OP is handling this so well. Not panicking and accusing as many parents would. I also agree that this girl's parents know her best. I think it is admirable that the you have taught your children to use the correct terms for their genitals instead of creepy euphemisms that should only be used in jokes. I also think it's very possible that she has a UTI, or maybe has been scratching her bug bite. She might be constipated, or she may have expired experimented on her own. There are many possibilities, and OP, I so respect that you are approaching this so calmly.
I also think that the molestation possibility shouldn't be discounted. It is best to take her for an exam just in case, and it should definitely be somebody she's comfortable with. I got a vaginal ecam at the age of 7 with a female doctor I had never met before, and that was so traumatic. I also think that the reaction of the authority figures at her school had a strange reaction, however. And I think you should be warned that CPS workers get a bonus whenever they remove a special needs child fro. An "abusive" home. Also know that in much of America, the family court system is corrupt. I speak from experience, as my family is full of teachers. So far you have done everything necessary to keep yourself in the legal clear, just keep following up with the doctor and reporting any further statements from your daughter. Yes, get her into the doctor.
The rest of you critiquing her, work with special needs children before you jump to conclusions about them. It is so true that you do not want them to lose their credibility, and getting all the facts before you act is crucial.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but you appear to be actively looking for a boogeyman here. There is no physical evidence, the child is not upset by this situation, the story of the incident is so improbably as to be very, very unlikely, and this is a special needs child who has a history of fabricating stories. So instead of LOOKING for a bad guy here, I think the watchful approach is the correct one and ultimately the best one for the OPs child.
I'm actually not. Some of the alleged facts seem so off to me that I'm wondering which family member in this family actually has a problem with telling stories! I'm beginning to think that someone got bored and decide to post on the internet .....
I hope you are right for a couple of reasons. If the school is not protecting these children and if no reports are being made, then CPS and the police will have never heard about past incidents that were never reported -- should something happen to a child at this school.
Also, and the OP is not going to want to hear this -- but if her child is making this up, it would be nice to have a record of this in the event the child tells similar stories in the future. This will help protect other parents and their children should fingers be pointed at other children if the accusations are nothing more than a story.
There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this incident was reported to CPS by one or more mandatory reporters.
What CPS does with it depends on how it was reported. We have had situations at my school where something was reported and the police arrived in under 10 minutes to investigate and other times, the report may have just been written down in that families file and nothing was done immediately.
It's obvious you told this doctor (who isn't even a pediatrician!) that your daughter is prone to lying. Of course, why would he #1 want to see a four-year-old child when he's a family doctor, and #2 even believe this child because Mom says she's a liar? So yeah, he says, just take her to a therapist, because of course, all liars should go to therapists, even when they say they've been penetrated in the vagina and the anus.
OP, you are the epitome of why victims of rape and molestation are terrified to come forward. I feel really bad for this poor little girl.
This is also a family doctor. How is someone who sees this girl supposed to not know she has a propensity to confibulate? That's actually vital information for a doctor to have.
I am a mandatory reporter and there have been several (actually, numerous) times that I reported an suspected incident to CPS and have not told the parent that I did that. There have been times that CPS and the police have investigated incidents by coming to the school and interviewing staff members but did not first go to interview the parent. In a few of the cases I am not even sure that the parents were ever notified.
And, yes, there have been incidents where, after a call to CPS was made, the police came and removed a child from school to go to a doctor and immediately put the child into foster care that same day until the investigation was completed and before the parents were even notified (as they suspected that the parent or a family member was an abuser).
If something like this had happened at my school, it is very likely that the classroom teacher, special education teacher and guidance counselor all made independent calls to CPS. Or, they may have a system where one key staff person, like the school social worker or principal called CPS (and possibly the police department). At least in the schools where I have taught we do not take allegations like this lightly. We would talk with the parent very calmly so they do not over-react or panic but even something rather unlikely (another child intimately touching a peer in the middle of class, on the rug in front of the entire class and teacher) would be reported and we would closely monitor both children for a substantial length of time.
I would bet that plans are currently in place that the OPs child and the peer are never left alone, either together or separately. Changes such as always having an adult walk the OPs child to other places in school or even having the girl use an adult bathroom or the bathroom in the nurse's office so there is no chance that she is ever along with a peer (even while using the toilet). Or not allowing either child to go into the hallway by themselves to get something out of their backpack. Sometimes parents are notified ofthese measures and sometimes they are not notified.
Sometimes, it is done so subtly that the child may not even realize the difference. Perhaps, now the speech therapist walks her back to the classroom door rather than having her walk back to her classroom by herself or she is "special line leader" and walks right next to the teacher when they walk to art class or gym class. Or the music teacher switches her seat so that she now sits in the front row right next to the teacher. Or there are new classroom rules that no one can go out into the hallway during class time or leave the room to get a drink of water at the fountain.
Every situation is different but IMHO calls were made to CPS by the mandatory reporters.
That is interesting, and I hope that they do these kinds of things. As it is, there is already a private, single bathroom in each kindergarten classroom, so she is already not using the multi-stall bathroom down the hall (1st graders do). There is also a water fountain right in the classroom (and kids are encouraged to keep a water bottle at their desk), and backpacks are not kept in the hallway until 3rd grade.
I also assume that she is being walked to and from therapy and special ed by the teacher/therapist and not expected to walk there alone. Our school is kinda weird in that it is made up of several buildings - K/1 is in one building, special ed and therapy services are in another building (with the 2nd grade and music room), the cafeteria is in it's own building, so is the gym/art room, and grades 3-5 are in the building with the library. You have to walk outside to get from one building to another, and there are coded locks on the exterior doors so that only teachers can open them to get in. So if a kid has to walk from one place to another, they always have to have a teacher to let them in the door.
But yes, it is possible that this kind of thing is being done behind the scenes without them telling me (though why wouldn't they tell me?). And it is certainly possible that someone has called CPS and I just don't know about it at this time. I guess I can only say that I'm not aware of anyone calling CPS at this time.
I do think it's possible that something happened to her, maybe just not in the way that she described, just because it seems like something a kid wouldn't be able to make up. It may not have even happend the other day, just some time in the past, since I know she doesn't understand time. I've been thinking that a scenario that seems more likely to me than in the middle of her classroom, is at her afterschool program because that is a lot more... let's say free-form. I have arrived to pick her up and they told me she was in the bathroom and when I went to get her there were no adults down nearby the bathroom and I went in to find her playing in the toilet water... I'm thinking that I should make sure that the teachers at afterschool are aware of the situation and monitor her more closely. I mean, I was hoping that they'd monitor her more closely anyway after the toilet water incident, but yah...
I'm actually not. Some of the alleged facts seem so off to me that I'm wondering which family member in this family actually has a problem with telling stories! I'm beginning to think that someone got bored and decide to post on the internet .....
The OP has been a contributing member to this forum for longer than I have been a member, at least 4 or 5 years. To be honest, I find your posts the exact reason so many people have a hard time talking to others and instead sweep things under the rug. We should be able to discuss these sorts of things without the integrity of the parent being questioned in post after post.
The professionals have been consulted, the parents concur, the child has moved on, that should be the end of it but you still insist upon finding fault with someone, in this post it is the mom. Sheesh, leave her alone.
I'm actually not. Some of the alleged facts seem so off to me that I'm wondering which family member in this family actually has a problem with telling stories! I'm beginning to think that someone got bored and decide to post on the internet .....
You are relatively new to this forum. The OP is not. She has been active here for many years and is a very involved parent. There is nothing whatsoever to indicate she is being less than truthful.
That is interesting, and I hope that they do these kinds of things. As it is, there is already a private, single bathroom in each kindergarten classroom, so she is already not using the multi-stall bathroom down the hall (1st graders do). There is also a water fountain right in the classroom (and kids are encouraged to keep a water bottle at their desk), and backpacks are not kept in the hallway until 3rd grade.
I also assume that she is being walked to and from therapy and special ed by the teacher/therapist and not expected to walk there alone. Our school is kinda weird in that it is made up of several buildings - K/1 is in one building, special ed and therapy services are in another building (with the 2nd grade and music room), the cafeteria is in it's own building, so is the gym/art room, and grades 3-5 are in the building with the library. You have to walk outside to get from one building to another, and there are coded locks on the exterior doors so that only teachers can open them to get in. So if a kid has to walk from one place to another, they always have to have a teacher to let them in the door.
But yes, it is possible that this kind of thing is being done behind the scenes without them telling me (though why wouldn't they tell me?). And it is certainly possible that someone has called CPS and I just don't know about it at this time. I guess I can only say that I'm not aware of anyone calling CPS at this time.
I do think it's possible that something happened to her, maybe just not in the way that she described, just because it seems like something a kid wouldn't be able to make up. It may not have even happend the other day, just some time in the past, since I know she doesn't understand time. I've been thinking that a scenario that seems more likely to me than in the middle of her classroom, is at her afterschool program because that is a lot more... let's say free-form. I have arrived to pick her up and they told me she was in the bathroom and when I went to get her there were no adults down nearby the bathroom and I went in to find her playing in the toilet water... I'm thinking that I should make sure that the teachers at afterschool are aware of the situation and monitor her more closely. I mean, I was hoping that they'd monitor her more closely anyway after the toilet water incident, but yah...
Does the after school program include older children?
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