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Since my grandchildren are pushing 40 and my children are drawing on Social Security, I think you can imagine that, in my section of the country, I may have seen a case or two of measles. Yes, I lived in a time of measles.
People are soooo afraid of death now, that they worry too much about it. I date back to when people were still getting smallpox and polio. We worried and breathed a sigh of relief when our children got by with no harm. These diseases were part of life. In all my years, and knowing many people with children. I do not know of a single death from measles. No blindness either. I suspect that these statistics were gathered in an area that suited the researcher's ideas. I doubt that 1 out 20 developed Pneumonia.
Yes, Measles can be dangerous and we should be very careful when it's around.....BUT, statistics do not always tell the whole story. In thinking about my husband and I, our seven brothers and sisters, our own children, and about 25 nieces and nephews, not to mention hundreds of cousins, I do not know of a single death from measles. None of the neighbors, or school mates either. One of my sons wears glasses and his doctor says it may have been from having measles a few months earlier. But he didn't know for sure. He was in the first grade. He may have needed glasses for a few years. Reading makes a difference.
So you're, what, 85? An 85-year-old's relationship with death is very different from that of a young person, or the parent of a young child. If you're honest, I'm sure you were not as flippant about the possibility of your children dying as you claim to remember.
Your philosophy applies very well to a discussion about life-extending treatments for people in their 80's, but does not apply at all in a discussion about saving infants from a potentially deadly disease.
It isn't just the hippie moms. We DO vaccinate our children, but even I don't want mandatory vaccinations. I want to make the final decision for my children. I am not a person who blindly vaccinates. I vaccinate because I'd never forgive myself if one of my children died because of something I could have prevented from happening.
Even in the cases of the children who are vaccinated but still get sick, in most cases, the people don't get AS sick as they would if they weren't vaccinated. One of my best friends and a cousin are both nurses who have been on scene on several campus outbreaks and they have always maintained that while some of the people who get sick were vaccinated, in EVERY case those people didn't as sick and none of those people died whereas sometimes there were deaths amongst the people who were NOT vaccinated.
Having said that, I am not for the Guardasil vaccine for my children yet and would never be okay with being forced to give it to them.
And I bet you don't have one actual real reason not to like the HPV vax...but that won't stop you from putting your kid and others at risk.
I don't think there are many people calling for mandatory vaccinations, but I do believe children should not be allowed to attend public schools with ideological exemptions.
Are you and children vaccinated? If so, you are HIGHLY UNLIKELY going to get it. It's like a five percent chance tops of getting the measles with vaccination. The issue is the spread of it to those parents that forgo vaccination.
It isn't just the hippie moms. We DO vaccinate our children, but even I don't want mandatory vaccinations. I want to make the final decision for my children. I am not a person who blindly vaccinates. I vaccinate because I'd never forgive myself if one of my children died because of something I could have prevented from happening.
Even in the cases of the children who are vaccinated but still get sick, in most cases, the people don't get AS sick as they would if they weren't vaccinated. One of my best friends and a cousin are both nurses who have been on scene on several campus outbreaks and they have always maintained that while some of the people who get sick were vaccinated, in EVERY case those people didn't as sick and none of those people died whereas sometimes there were deaths amongst the people who were NOT vaccinated.
Having said that, I am not for the Guardasil vaccine for my children yet and would never be okay with being forced to give it to them.
Voluntary would fit better in my world view, too. The problem with voluntary immunization as opposed to compulsory is that you don't get a great level of compliance with voluntary. If voluntary worked, there wouldn't have to be laws about compulsory immunization. And, unlike compulsory use of car seats, you can opt out of immunizations with compulsory IZ laws. If the cop stops you and you're in violation of the car seat/child restraint law, you don't get to sign an exemption and be on your merry way. You can do that with immunizations in many states. You need at least a 95% immunization rate to keep measles from spreading in a group. That's hard to achieve with voluntary compliance.
Gardasil is not the subject of this thread. There is a thread on Gardasil, either here or on P&OC.
There is no such thing as "forced" immunizations, except perhaps in the military or for certain jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
Are you and children vaccinated? If so, you are HIGHLY UNLIKELY going to get it. It's like a five percent chance tops of getting the measles with vaccination. The issue is the spread of it to those parents that forgo vaccination.
5% is a lot in a large group of people. Say 1000 kids in a school are vaccinated. That means 50 of them could get measles if exposed, and of those 50, likely 45 WILL get it if exposed, as measles has a 90% infection rate. Most adults over 30 have probably received only one dose of vaccine, which means they're not "fully immunized".
Voluntary would fit better in my world view, too. The problem with voluntary immunization as opposed to compulsory is that you don't get a great level of compliance with voluntary. If voluntary worked, there wouldn't have to be laws about compulsory immunization. And, unlike compulsory use of car seats, you can opt out of immunizations with compulsory IZ laws. If the cop stops you and you're in violation of the car seat/child restraint law, you don't get to sign an exemption and be on your merry way. You can do that with immunizations in many states. You need at least a 95% immunization rate to keep measles from spreading in a group. That's hard to achieve with voluntary compliance.
Yeah, that is a problem. Especially with Jennie McCarthy pulling her vaccinations cause autism crap allegations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel
There is no such thing as "forced" immunizations, except perhaps in the military or for certain jobs.
I remember hearing that in New York it is pretty much a lock you have to for MMR and the booster for it to be allowed in most public schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FallsAngel
5% is a lot in a large group of people. Say 1000 kids in a school are vaccinated. That means 50 of them could get measles if exposed, and of those 50, likely 45 WILL get it if exposed, as measles has a 90% infection rate. Most adults over 30 have probably received only one dose of vaccine, which means they're not "fully immunized".
I don't know if 45% will. The other point is there likely has to be a non-vaccinated patient zero who was there before for a vaccinated person to actually get the Measles.
Yeah, that is a problem. Especially with Jennie McCarthy pulling her vaccinations cause autism crap allegations.
I remember hearing that in New York it is pretty much a lock you have to for MMR and the booster for it to be allowed in most public schools.
I don't know if 45% will. The other point is there likely has to be a non-vaccinated patient zero who was there before for a vaccinated person to actually get the Measles.
Someone from New York can tell us if this is true. There is a thread about someone looking for an "open-minded pediatrician that doesn't push immunizations" on the Long Island board, so it must not be true in LI.
I didn't say 45%. I said 45 of 50 unimmunized people will get the measles if exposed. Measles has a 90% attack rate. And actually, in that small of a group, it might be an entirely different number. The 90% is in a large group. But that was for illustrative purposes. 5% is a lot!
I remember hearing that in New York it is pretty much a lock you have to for MMR and the booster for it to be allowed in most public schools.
.
That is still not forcing parents....they can make other educational plans if they can't follow the requirements and don't have an actual medical issue.
You might consider asking your pediatrician to adopt the policy that some are adopting of not accepting patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate them. You wouldn't want to be bringing your kid in for a well-baby visit and encountering an infected child.
Before the vaccine, parents just kept their kids close to home and away from others when there was a lot of cases around. Sometimes the children got measles, sometime they didn't. We just didn't get so frightened about catching the disease......it was part of life and raising children.
And, yes, sometimes they got very ill and died. Somehow, we managed to survive. It could be bad. Usually it wasn't.
I'm 68, and I got the "Red Measles" -- Rubeola, the big-bad one -- when I was 6. I survived because of early detection/intervention, large doses of antibiotics (!! it was 1952-53), and round-the-clock care to keep the fever down. I remember the parts when I wasn't delirious, and trust me here: I WAS SICK.
Now, with that said, a surprisingly large number of us "measles survivors" have to deal with the long-term consequences of the disease. In my case, the lengthy high fever and etc. caused permanent damage to my vision. I got the measles in the first grade; the changes in my vision weren't detected/corrected until I was in the fourth grade. Heck, I was a kid -- I thought things looked like that to everyone!
My point here is simple. Measles -- "red measles" -- Rubeola -- is a very, very dangerous disease. Even the survivors often have to contend with lifelong sequelia; I did. The vaccine is proven (and verified) to be both effective AND safe, so as soon as your children are old enough, get them vaccinated.
Before they are old enough, take Herculean measures to prevent them from being exposed to it.
Just my two cents,
-- Nighteyes
Last edited by Nighteyes; 02-02-2015 at 04:23 PM..
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