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If my daughter was a stripper I would be sad because I would know I failed as a parent...it would be an epic failure on my part because I didn't instill the most basic of parenting lessons which is self worth...I remember the director John Waters (who made a film/documentary about strippers) in which he opined that it was safe to say not much good had happened in that girls previous 18 years that she ends up on a pole...
If my son frequented strip clubs and thought he was better than the girls working there, I would be sad because I would know I failed as a parent...it would be an epic failure on my part because I didn't instill the most basic of parenting lessons which is respecting yourself and others...I remember the teacher Jesus (who inspired a best-seller) said that he who is without sin should cast the first stone.
If my daughter was a stripper I would be sad because I would know I failed as a parent...
Depending on your criteria for what "success as a parent" even means. I can certainly say that no criteria I hold would lead to the same conclusions as you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishiis49
because I didn't instill the most basic of parenting lessons which is self worth...
I am not seeing the link. How does sex work = a lack of self worth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishiis49
I remember the director John Waters (who made a film/documentary about strippers) in which he opined that it was safe to say not much good had happened in that girls previous 18 years that she ends up on a pole...
Did he do more than just _say_ it? Did he back up such a preposterous and judgemental position in any way? Or did he skip over doing that so he could return to his usual trope of promoting his religious ideals in his column - campaigning against marriage equality - or giving talks to the Iona Institute?
I am not seeing the link. How does sex work = a lack of self worth?
While my stance as a supporter for sex worker rights is known here, I can see how one can arrive at the conclusion that sex work is a reflection of one's self worth. If one elevates in their mind the act of sex above and beyond just the physical act, it can be considered as selling a part of yourself; akin to selling a kidney for a quick buck.
I certainly respect that individual view. After all, I certainly don't want anyone to be forced into sex work against their own individual views and personal choices. I see coerced and forced labor in any form as a true evil in society.... most people who support sex worker rights would support any measures to eliminate forced/trafficking/etc.. criminal elements.
The issue I have is when that individual view is used as the foundation for marginalizing a group of people making free willed choices and, even worse, a society using such individual views to legislate away personal freedom of choice. I don't see this as a morality or right/wrong issue... I see this as a individuals' right to choice and dominion over their body and life.
I would want my daughter (or son) to have the freedom to choose how she (or he) lives their life. I think that right is above and beyond the importance over whether or not I agree with her choices.
I would be disappointed but more for the lack of using her talents for meaningful work rather than the supposed connotation of stripping=negative. We raised the kids to find work that is their passion as we were lucky enough to do so, and so far they all have as well. Stripping is sort of a "shallow job", but no more so than many others.. I would be just as disappointed, if not more so, if she became some reality show drama faux celebrity. Oh, I would be really disappointed if she married someone for money, that is way worse. But stripping is an honest buck, and there are lots of ways to make a living that are much less honest, and many, many people work just to pay the bills with their passions else where.
Not sure I can. It seems to be based on the idea that "Your self worth should be measures the same way as I measure mine - and if you do not then you must not have any self worth".
It would seem self worth comes from having and making choices. Having the freedom to make the choices that are right for you. And if that choice entails entering into Sex Work - then that is not automatically indicative of a lack of self worth. It is just indicative of a measure of self worth that does not predicate itself on who one has sex with - or why.
It would seem to me therefore that those saying "Sex Workers have no sense of self worth" are actually saying "I look at sex workers myself and do not judge them to have worth". And we have one prime example of that on this very thread where a user openly declares they sweepingly and simply look down on sex workers as a whole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714
I would be disappointed but more for the lack of using her talents for meaningful work
What is the criteria for "meaningful work" I wonder. Are people cleaning toilets doing "meaningful work"? What about people collecting tax? Repossessing unpaid for goods? Producing television entertainment? Modeling underwear? Injecting Botox into peoples faces? Cooking and selling fast food? Playing football?
What % of jobs on the planet are "meaningful" and what is the criteria for inclusion?
What is the criteria for "meaningful work" I wonder. Are people cleaning toilets doing "meaningful work"? What about people collecting tax? Repossessing unpaid for goods? Producing television entertainment? Modeling underwear? Injecting Botox into peoples faces? Cooking and selling fast food? Playing football?
What % of jobs on the planet are "meaningful" and what is the criteria for inclusion?
You cherry picked two words. I said "using HER talents for meaningful work". My daughter is a specific person, with specific gifts and deficits, as is everyone. Like most things that those who cherry pick on internet forum try to ignore, many of these things do not have a hard line in the sand but rather are on an individual basis. That would be why I spoke about a specific person, my daughter, rather than in generalities.
Cleaning toilets is certainly meaningful work, she has no particular talent for it, hers talents tend to lie in coding and math and she has chosen to use those talents in the pursuit of knowledge. If she had chosen to use those talents to participate in legal but unethical financial dealings I would be as disappointed if she decided to abandon them all together to be a stripper, probably more so.
You cherry picked two words. I said "using HER talents for meaningful work".
I did not cherry pick anything. I saw something I did not quite understand and I sought clarification of what it means. Do not treat everything as an affront or an attack. I simply do not know what "meaningful work" even means - what it entails - or what qualifies. And your reply does not appear to have clarified it for me at all.
It seems - since you have just decided to leave me guessing - that you define "meaningful" as any work that conforms to what a persons talents appear to be. That in itself would be problematic however because many people have talents for things they simply do not want to do and would hate doing. And they would not think doing that work "meaningful" at all.
But again - when you say something and someone does not understand part of it and ask for further clarification - that is not cherry picking. Do not pretend it is just to avoid the question.
I would feel like a failure. But I'm not sure I could accept her choice. I really dislike strippers and I don't think I could have her in my life. Idk, tough situation.
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