Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Absolutely disagree wholeheartedly, this is why most Americans cannot take on programming jobs and employers are going overseas to find them. Programming is cerebral, it requires logic, math, organizational, to creative skills in order to execute. The act of programming is like speaking, you speak the language that the machines can understand but the entire programming concept is a lot harder than music and sports out there. Operating systems have nothing to do with programming. Programming is about languages.
You could be gifted with music or sports and easily perform well but not in computer programming which requires knowledge of the programming language, great reading skills, and a good IQ and intelligence to code or design the system code.
Most software engineers do not code, their job is to design and assemble the system and have programmers execute on the system code required to do the job.
Having taught computer programming at the college level, I will share with you my observations.
You are correct that programming is cerebral, that it requires logic, math, organizational, and creative skills in order to execute. I have had students who have put in many hours of study and still could not complete simple programming assignments, because their brain was just not wired up that way. And I have had students that can understand programming logic as easily as breathing. And every single gifted programmer that I asked had learned a musical instrument as a young child. Granted this is anecdotal evidence, but I strongly believe that the brain organization that is promoted by learning a musical instrument early (specifically the piano) is highly conducive to later being proficient at the types of logical thinking required to be a good programmer.
You are incorrect that operating systems have nothing to do with programming. That's silly. Operating systems are programmed.
You are sort of correct that programming is about languages. Yes, learning to code is like learning a new language. BUT. A good programmer can code in any language, he can summon up the algorithms and design patterns needed to implement the solution to whatever problem there is, and then can use a reference to look up what the particular semantics are to implement that algorithm or design pattern in almost any language. All the great programmers I know have dozens of computer language books in their offices that they basically use as translators depending on what languages they need for a specific task. So being a programmer is more about knowing how computer languages in general work, and how to use them to solve a problem, without necessarily needing to know every single language out there.
Also, you are correct that most software engineers are not coding at any one point in time. But almost all of them HAVE coded at some point in time. Just like all construction workers are not hammering at any one point in time, but almost all of them HAVE hammered at some point in time. Coding/programming is just one skill in the software engineer toolbox. But it's highly unlikely to have a software engineer who cannot code, that's like having a construction worker who cannot hammer.
ANYWAY. My main point is that if you want your child to have the opportunity to become a good programmer/software engineer later in life, the very best start for them is to take piano lessons starting as absolutely as early as possible, until at least about age 7. While their brain is still in it's early stages of development. It's better to teach your 5 year old piano than programming, if you want him to eventually be a programmer. Or good at anything to do with math.
The skills shortage is a myth made up by tech companies in order to import workers who will work for lower wages than an American worker.
America has plenty of talent, just not enough talent willing to work for $12 an hour and no benefits.
What we have plenty of are low to moderately skilled techies. They are being displaced by cheaper low to moderately skilled techies from other countries who are willing to work for $12 an hour and no benefits.
We do have a shortage of highly skilled techies that are needed to perform functions that cannot be outsourced. Possibly because our moderately skilled techies are not getting enough experience to become highly skilled techies.
Okay I was a forced music kid and can personally say I would NEVER do the same to any kids I have.
I was forced to take choir and try for band. I can't sing and was too shy, so that flopped despite the constant (almost aggressive) comments on how I should just keep trying. Then it turns to disappointment and complete insults on my low and obviously-not-wanting-to-be-there-in-the-first-place performance.
So next was band, which I was shoved into for showing even a slight interest in. When it came to the teachers attention, and mines, that I didn't have the lung power, my granma got aggressive towards him THEN me for "not trying hard enough" despite the fact that I simply couldn't even though I was trying so damn hard I was getting light headed.
This turned into her just insulting me from time to time because of me being a failure, so not doing what she wanted.
Years later I showed interest in and joined orchestra, but she gave no ****. Apparently playing a string instrument was a waste of skills. So it showed me she wouldn't care about anything I did unless she specifically liked it.
This goes for sports too. Forced to, and I mean signed up and taken to practice with threats of an ass whupping if I acted up, do soccer (before I liked it) and basketball, but she stopped at gymnastics and cheerleading because I snapped and drew the line there. Years later I showed interest in and joined track (as a sprinter) and cross country just because, then hockey and soccer as a goalie.
So from personal experience, I get it if you want your kid to explore new things and activities and musical instruments. But there is a very easy way to force them and for those who are acting like it's impossible to force your child to "try" something new, man are you guys narrow minded!
But if I had kids, I'd expose them to the stuff early on and if they show interest I'd gradually let them play around with it. Not do what my granma did and shove things at them when they're still deciding if they even like it or not.
And to the person who said "force kids to eat the occasional vegetable", you'd have loved me as a kid. I was the opposite in that you had to force me to eat my bacon and meat. Veggies went down like candy and I'd get too excited when I saw my plate pilled with brussel sprouts or broccoli or (oh my god) collard greens. But steak and bacon? I'd be trying to pass it to the cat or just nibble at it enough to count it as eating.
I never forced. But, once they said they wanted to play an instrument, they had to finish out the rental agreement time frame. Two of the three signed on, and only one of those two still dabbles in music.
I WISH my parents had forced me to continue music lessons. I am envious of the folks who can play instruments, well. I had a friend who was a great piano and organ player, it was always so much fun when he was around. He could play all kinds of music from traditional to ragtime and popular. He used to be invited to play famous organs in concerts in different places.
Make it fun, but make them stick with it until they are out of high school at least. They may hate you, but they will thank you.
Sorry, being forced to play an instrument for 10 years does NOT make you proficient or even good, and it CERTAINLY doesn't make you enjoy it. Your friend was great because they were destined by chance and heredity to be great, not by being forced. YOU WEREN'T wired to be able to do what they did, or you WOULD have kept it up.
I'm in my mid to late 60s and wish my parents would have 'forced" me to take guitar lessons but I doubt they could have afforded it. I still took it up at around 12 and have been playing now for over 50 years but only "by ear."
I sort of "forced" my grand daughter to take up guitar by giving her a guitar I could have only dreamed about at her age. Although her heavy rock music deviates a long way from my country and pop music, she is very talented and can read music.
She was at the time in middle school and I had told her, if she could play, she would always have friends. Now out of high school, she agrees.
I know quite a few parents that forces their children starting at age 7 to take music instrument lessons. Do you agree or disagree with this?
I personally think unless the child is gifted or shown interest with music, then it's most likely a waste.
It's a good thing to teach a kid the basics of some instrument. At a minimum, it teaches an appreciation of the difficulty of it. I consider it part of well rounded education. You don't get a well rounded education by teaching only the things that a kid wants to learn.
In the scheme of things, I wouldn't worry about parents forcing their kids to do something like this. There are much bigger issues to worry about.
You can't go by what a kid wants or doesn't want at any particular time. However, I would let the kid pick the instrument, and if he hated the lessons, I wouldn't make him/her continue with them for years. But it's a good thing for him/her to have to do that for some length of time.
Requiring some participation in sports for a length of time is also good, even if the kid isn't sports inclined. A familiarity with sports, improving physical health and fitness, and the competitiveness and team spirit, are all things that a child should at least be exposed to for some length of time. If he hates it, don't continue with it.
I don't view these things as akin to eating vegetables. Music and sports are part of a well rounded education. Eating vegetables is not. I wouldn't force a kid to eat something he doesn't like. Maybe try a bit of it once, and if he hates it, he doesn't have to eat it. I never understood forcing kids to eat things they don't like. Most kids will eat something in that food group, or you can hide it in soup or a casserole.
Our son wanted to learn Taekwondo. After a couple months our daughter wanted to try it out. We told both that realize if they start that they would not be stopping until they have at least their first Dan (First degree Black Belt).
No quitting. No stopping, no way out.
Our son was good with that and recently after earning his black belt wants to continue on. There are 9 levels of Black Belt and it takes years to earn them. He is up for the challenge.
Our daughter was good with it to a point. After earning her Blue Belt she wanted to quit. She never wants to go to sparring although she is very good at it. She will practice her forms but hates to practice sparring. We will never give up on our kids though. She will continue until she has her Black belt. Now that she just tested for her Red Belt and in our program, only has two more colored belts to go before she can prepare for her black belt testing she is now starting to consider sticking with it.
My thought on this is that kids do not quit. Parents quit. Parents teach their kids that it is OK to quit. It is OK to give up on something that you start. Now I am not one of these parents that has the kids in 100 different activities. I don't believe in that either. We do allow our kids to get into two activities. Our son is into Scouts. He is planning on getting his Eagle in another year. Our daughter has tried different things. Most sports have a season. Not so with Taekwondo. No season, it never stops.
Music is a totally different beast. So many different instruments and not every kid has what it takes. My brother has the gift. He can plan anything with strings. He plays the piano. He writes music. He has three albums out there. He tours. For me, I can not figure what end of a drum stick is used to hit the drum with. For me it would be a waste. If my parents had pushed me in that direction I would not have quit. I would have kept with it. That did not happen though.
What I am saying is if a kid expresses an interest in something then set some rules. Tell them they will practice, they will go to class and they will not quit. If they can not make that agreement then have them look at something else, unless you as a parent see that it is so important that they become great at that one thing.
I have seen too many kids drift from one thing to another thing. As parents we need to help mold our kids and also teach them that they can not quit.
What we have plenty of are low to moderately skilled techies. They are being displaced by cheaper low to moderately skilled techies from other countries who are willing to work for $12 an hour and no benefits.
We do have a shortage of highly skilled techies that are needed to perform functions that cannot be outsourced. Possibly because our moderately skilled techies are not getting enough experience to become highly skilled techies.
There is something called "Prevailing wage" for techies. They are not coming 8000 miles to work in tech and make a Starbucks wage.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
