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Hey, make up your mind here - you either decided not to have kids to save the planet (a planet, BTW, that will be here long, long after we humans are gone), or you decided not to have kids because you are disinterested and unavailable?
Ah, you are so off base, you have no idea.
So far you have me pegged for a Christian pro-lifer - you could NOT be further off base. But, I guess it's easier for you to target me if you make me fit some mental picture, so carry on.
I still don't understand why you can't leave it alone that some people, Chiel being one of them chooses to NOT have children.
There is a fairly popular movement of people who are child-free, you need to get used to the idea now, its coming to an area near you.
Not when you look at the real numbers.
As people no longer collect benefits, they are removed from the numbers.
Are you saying that no one you know has lost a job or has to work 2/3 jobs to care for their families?
There was no indication that you were joking and after the rest of your post, what was I to infer?
Refute what? Your opinion?
That never happened. I said that I chose not to breed. I said nothing about or to another person.
I’ve read and participated in this entire thread. It is not the childfree who think themselves superior, it has been the childed.
Why do you think life is a game of winning and losing? What’s that about? Just because you have kids does not mean that they will like you or care for you in your old age. Just go to any retirement home or facility and see the people whose kids never stop by.
Do you really think that because we haven’t had kids that there are no people in our lives? People choose to be with us because we have relationships built on love and respect for each other. If you’re putting all of your eggs in the I have kids who will take care of me basket, you may be sadly mistaken.
I have a will, a living will and I’m savvy enough that my life will be taken care of. Yes, even without children.
Someone upthread, I thought it was you, referred to it as a competition, I was merely expounding upon it to show how ridiculous the initial statement was.
And yes some parent-child relationships are bad. But many are good, and many, even out of obligation, still benefit the parent in his/her last days.
Your peers will likely be dead or unable or unwilling to help or incapacitated themselves. I think it naive of you to believe you can pay anyone to take care of you in a meaningful way or that someone will just do it to be kind. The world doesn't work that way.
I, on the other hand, have 3 children and I know in my heart that my wife and I are raising them with the right values, and as such, they will pull together and support each other in doing right by us, as we have and will continue to do by them; after all, that's what family is all about.
Someone upthread, I thought it was you, referred to it as a competition, I was merely expounding upon it to show how ridiculous the initial statement was.
And yes some parent-child relationships are bad. But many are good, and many, even out of obligation, still benefit the parent in his/her last days.
Your peers will likely be dead or unable or unwilling to help or incapacitated themselves. I think it naive of you to believe you can pay anyone to take care of you in a meaningful way or that someone will just do it to be kind. The world doesn't work that way.
I, on the other hand, have 3 children and I know in my heart that my wife and I are raising them with the right values, and as such, they will pull together and support each other in doing right by us, as we have and will continue to do by them; after all, that's what family is all about.
Have you been to a nursing home recently to see how many elderly people are there? My parents used to run one and it was more common then not that elderly people were dumped there and their kids were no where to be found. My own Mother did that to her Mother.
If your having kids to take care of you in your old age, I hope you have a contingency plan.
I still don't understand why you can't leave it alone that some people, Chiel being one of them chooses to NOT have children.
There is a fairly popular movement of people who are child-free, you need to get used to the idea now, its coming to an area near you.
These are only three of the 35mil hits I got from googling the words Child Free.
I think its her tone and attitude, and worthless rhetoric, not her choice to not have children that rubs Kristy and myself and others, the wrong way.
And honestly, I would love to meet a well adjusted person who says they are childless by choice. All I see and read from on here are people whose pyschological issues and/or parent's incompetence left a hole that they had to fill with their own pursuits thus resulting in not wanting to have children because they have to keep filling that hole and they can't possibly see how something else needing them, thus forcing them to think about someone besides themselves, could possibly be good for them or fulfill them.
Have you been to a nursing home recently to see how many elderly people are there? My parents used to run one and it was more common then not that elderly people were dumped there and their kids were no where to be found. My own Mother did that to her Mother.
If your having kids to take care of you in your old age, I hope you have a contingency plan.
And what about all the people who are at home being cared for by their adult children? I've got news for you, not everyone can afford nursing homes, and not every family "dumps" their parents. For sure, the role of caretaker falls primarily on the women, but guess what? I'm a SAHD and I fully expect my sons to be every bit as nurturing and compassionate as I am. And I expect them to visit me a few times a month, provided the facility that I pick out and move into of my own free will is near enough to their families, which I expect it will be as that will increase my chances of seeing them and my future grandchildren.
Interesting, your mother dumped her mom and you don't want children...ties nicely with my previous post, don't you think? There does seem to be some corollary between not wanting children and the inability to see them as anything but a negative...but I digress...
I know that there are in fact a lot of elderly in the homes that are in fact not visited or cared for by their children. However, I also know that there are a lot of elderly that are either in homes and their children and grandbabies do visit often and are on top of the care their elderly family member is receiving.
I will not attempt at trying to persume why a child will choose to not care for their parents once their parents are not able to care for themselves. I can only assume that it may have something to do with ow the child was raised and if they were raised with an idea of me'ism and self-centerdness or lack of true family values. I can speak for my family which is a very large family... Just going back to my great-grandmother who I got the privilege of enjoying and so did my children.
Great grandmother had 7 children (6 boys and 1 girl)
Each of them had anywhere between 3-6 children themselves
Each of them had 2-4 children each
and the next generation are well on their way with many having at least 1 child at the present time some of which have already begun the next generation ....
In every single instance in my family the parents have been cared for by their children. My grandmother cared for my great-grandmother until it became a health risk for my great-grandmother at which time she was placed in a nursing home and my grandmother went every day fed her lunch and dinner, cut her hair, painted her nails and assisted in sponge baths... my great-uncle was forced to place his wife in a nursing home after she suffered a severe stroke... for 9 years he went every single day and fed her dinner and also groomed her and stayed until bedtime with her.
I believe children will give back to their parents what the parents have instilled in them and given to them. If the child has been raised with warmth, love, nurturing, compassion and a strong sense of family that child is more than likely going to grow and develop with those same traits and reciprocate it back to the parents when the parents are in need. If the child however was neglected in some way, did not receive those things from their parents and was not educated in caring for others but rather developed a self-centeredness then yes I can see how caring for their parents may be too much of a burden for them to take on. Easier to let strangers care for their parents.
This of course is just my opinion based on my experience. I don't claim this to be fact or truth in all cases. I do believe that having a child should be about much more than just having someone to care for you in your old age. That I will agree with. There has to be more to that desire and decision than that as that reason alone without any other reason would be a self-serving reason and chances are that self-serving attitude will be passed on to the child and the end results will leave the parents wondering what happened when they are alone in their old age.
I think its her tone and attitude, and worthless rhetoric, not her choice to not have children that rubs Kristy and myself and others, the wrong way.
And honestly, I would love to meet a well adjusted person who says they are childless by choice. All I see and read from on here are people whose pyschological issues and/or parent's incompetence left a hole that they had to fill with their own pursuits thus resulting in not wanting to have children because they have to keep filling that hole and they can't possibly see how something else needing them, thus forcing them to think about someone besides themselves, could possibly be good for them or fulfill them.
Ya, ya, ya, ONLY parents are thinking of someone besides themselves!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????
So far all I 've heard from them is "I", "me", "I", "ME".
I think SOME were forced to see a different perspective and won't/can't accept it.
Sorry , you haven't met any well adjusted childFREE people but they're out there and there's more than you think. At least THEY put thought into whether or not to have kids. Being a parent makes you well adjusted???
Ya(sarcasm) automatically!!!
THEY'RE trying to "fill a hole" ???? Nothing was lacking in my life when I chose not to have kids (still isn't)....you might want to ask a parent what was lacking in their lives that they had "fill a hole" in it.
I guess you don't like 'childless', I don't like 'breeding'. Fair enough?
Definitions are different. Childless infers that you’re waiting to breed. I made a surgical decision to not have children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl
Someone upthread, I thought it was you, referred to it as a competition, I was merely expounding upon it to show how ridiculous the initial statement was.
And yes some parent-child relationships are bad. But many are good, and many, even out of obligation, still benefit the parent in his/her last days.
Your peers will likely be dead or unable or unwilling to help or incapacitated themselves. I think it naive of you to believe you can pay anyone to take care of you in a meaningful way or that someone will just do it to be kind. The world doesn't work that way.
I, on the other hand, have 3 children and I know in my heart that my wife and I are raising them with the right values, and as such, they will pull together and support each other in doing right by us, as we have and will continue to do by them; after all, that's what family is all about.
It was not me that talked about competition, it was one of the parents.
You have no idea if your kids will be living in the same city, country or if they’ll even outlive you. There are no guarantees. Just look at the residents of most assisted living facilities.
So, you had kids to care for you in your old age? How positively selfish!
Please don’t be condescending to me. If I had a terminal disease, I would have no problem ending my life, so as not to be a burden on others. I have a very close system of friends who have supported each other for decades, I doubt sincerely that any of us would abandon the others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by orrmobl
And honestly, I would love to meet a well adjusted person who says they are childless by choice. All I see and read from on here are people whose pyschological issues and/or parent's incompetence left a hole that they had to fill with their own pursuits thus resulting in not wanting to have children because they have to keep filling that hole and they can't possibly see how something else needing them, thus forcing them to think about someone besides themselves, could possibly be good for them or fulfill them.
And you refer to the parents who say, have them, you’ll grow to love them to be normal? I don’t want kids now and never did. Your assumption is not only wrong but absurd. So, you’re saying that only parental units understand love? I think you’re breeding for the wrong reasons. To have someone to need you? Don’t you feel whole on your own. More’s the pity.
Well, most of we childfree people, as we like to be called, have chosen not to have kids for whatever reason. For me, it is one less line of people on the planet to consume/
I can easily propose to offer the world nothing in the way of resource users than offering the world a child, no matter what that child is. This is the worst logic I’ve ever heard.
Gee, I'm sorry. The distinction between "childless" and "Childfree" is so minor that I wonder why it is so important to you.
As for the 'worst logic I've ever heard" - try reading your sentence that immediately preceeds that one. Hunh?
All along this thread I have been supportive of everyone's choices, and their right to them, yet chielgirl feels an inordinate need to attack and to rabidly defend her position. I wonder why that is? Your choices - like everyone else's - make you no better and no worse than anyone here. Try not to sanctify yourself just because of the reasons for those choices.
The reason I pulled out the stops was that I'm tired of being slammed because my choice is different and my opinions are strong.
So I choose to be called childfree and you don't like being called a breeder. The difference between being called a parent and being called a breeder "is so minor that I wonder why it is so important to you." There, I finally said what I've been accused of several times.
Childfree is a choice in life. Childless is pretty much what you are while you're waiting to have kids. There is a difference.
I've shown as much respect as I've been provided.
If you've read my posts, I don't care what people do, but don't tell me that I don't know what love is, that I'm lonely, that I'm one of the whatever negative attribute you can throw in there. Neither are other childfree people. For that part, neither are parents, at least some of them.
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