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On the topic of anti-vaxxers and other forms of pseudo-medicine, the website Science-Based Medicine is required reading: https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/
It was founded by Steven Novella, a clinical neurologist at the Yale University of Medicine. It covers many other additional topics in the medical field -- just search by topic. Many other physicians (M.D.) contribute to the site.
The reality is that children are not given a bunch of vaccines at a time because its cheap. They are given a bunch of vaccines in close proximity because it is safe to do so. Try and think of it like this: Everyday people (including infants) are exposed to dozens/hundreds of different germs. Vaccines are mostly made up of dead germs or germs that are unable to reproduce. The other concern is seeing that an infant gets vaccinated before they can catch the diseases that are out there.. You have to start young for infants to get the full benefits of vaccination.
I am sympathetic on a certain level to what you are saying. I remember as a parent watching my small children being poked with all these "big" needles. It does provoke a reaction where you think that maybe something harmful is occurring. However, its been studied and its not harmful. On the contrary, it allows these children to develop immunity before they are exposed to certain diseases.
I know. And I agree. I'm not explaining my point very well. The majority of concerns revolve around autism. The article seems to be focusing on the autism angle. The autism angle involves the MMR vaccine and the vaccine schedule.
ONE of the boys given as an example, has already gone through his MMR shots, and presumably doesn't have autism. So, THAT'S basically a non-issue. The only vaccine I'd recommend he really SHOULD have, at this point, would be a chicken pox vaccine, (which is not associated with autism) if he hasn't had chickenpox before. He would probably be 18 by the time he needs his meningitis shot (not associated with autism)...and doesn't REALLY need a tetanus booster, unless he plans to travel out of the country.(Also not associated with autism) HE probably shouldn't be used as an example, and ISN'T in dire need of the gov. coming in and mandating vaccines over his parents wishes.
I am confused. Are you saying that, despite the autism connection being completely debunked, it is still a useful thing to consider when determining needed vaccines?
I am confused. Are you saying that, despite the autism connection being completely debunked, it is still a useful thing to consider when determining needed vaccines?
No, Sassybluesy is saying that even if the earth is flat, it's still safe to drive to Newark.
What I'm TRYING to say, apparently badly, is that the ARTICLE is focusing on the autism angle, AND the fact that it's been debunked...but at the same time, the article is using the example of one boy, who's already HAD his MMR shots. That implies TO ME that REALLY the article wants to make the issue that children should be able to "call the shots" (bad pun) when it comes to all innoculations...no matter what the innoculations are.
And then I look ahead, and I think "Well, if we're saying that minors should have the right to "call the shots" on innoculations, what else should minors have the right to do, and where does it end?" THUS, I'm saying that if it's going to be changed, then the law makers should (IMO) be VERY specific. Like...that it should only apply to MMR shots, BECAUSE measles, mumps and rubella are SO dangerous. Oh...and Whooping Cough. I forgot about that one.
One of the best changes in public health policy, was in allowing underage girls to have access to various birth-control methods, without the knowledge of their parents. The concept behind this, is that young people have the right to decide their own destiny and are not to be considered as the property of their parents. Not to be managed as though they were pets or livestock.
Yes, and some states do let underage kids get Hep B vaccine and HPV vaccine w/o parents' permission under that policy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
That's my only quibble. Not with each vaccine individually, but with the "cocktail" approach on a baby who has an immature immune system.
Even adults have reactions to vaccines. So we inject a baby with a "cocktail" of them all at once?
That's only for economic reasons--it's fast and cheap--not because it's the best way found to inoculate a child.
Your only quibble my, er, foot! You have expressed many other anti-vaccine beliefs on CD. Markg explained it well. Which of those vaccine preventable diseases would you like a small baby to get? Let me go through the list that two month olds get. Hepatitis B: Infants who get hep B disease have about a 90% chance of developing chronic hep B which can lead to cirrhosis and liver cancer. Diphtheria: A known killer. Fortunately very rare in this country. But if we stop vaccinating, we'll be right there with the countries of the former Soviet Union, who had a diphtheria epidemic when their health delivery system fell apart. Pertussis: The vast majority of DEATHS are in infants under 6 months. 50% of infants under 12 months who get pertussis are hospitalized. Tetanus: Spores are everywhere, including in dirt. Infants come into a lot of contact with dirt through crawling. Polio: Pretty much non-existent in this country, but only "an airplane ride away". One issue with unvaccinated people is they are more vulnerable to Vaccine Associated Paralytic Polio from the OPV, which is still used in some countries. Just think of what a visitor could start! Hib: Peak age for Hib meningitis is 6-18 months. Pneumococcal: Always with us. Have you ever seen a baby with pneumonia? I have. It's not a pretty sight. Rotavirus: An extreme form of diarrhea which can be deadly to little babies d/t dehydration.
Pick one, or more, for your child.
What makes you think it's cheaper to do them together than to spread them out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy
I know. And I agree. I'm not explaining my point very well. The majority of concerns revolve around autism. The article seems to be focusing on the autism angle. The autism angle involves the MMR vaccine and the vaccine schedule.
ONE of the boys given as an example, has already gone through his MMR shots, and presumably doesn't have autism. So, THAT'S basically a non-issue. The only vaccine I'd recommend he really SHOULD have, at this point, would be a chicken pox vaccine, (which is not associated with autism) if he hasn't had chickenpox before. He would probably be 18 by the time he needs his meningitis shot (not associated with autism)...and doesn't REALLY need a tetanus booster, unless he plans to travel out of the country.(Also not associated with autism) HE probably shouldn't be used as an example, and ISN'T in dire need of the gov. coming in and mandating vaccines over his parents wishes.
Sooo...are we talking about ALL vaccines a 15 yr. old thinks he needs, and his wishes circumvent his parents? OR, should we be VERY specific, regarding ONE particular type of vaccine? Because...I could get behind mandating MMR vaccines. (But I could also get behind the idea of spreading out the MMR vaccines, and maybe not piling on multiple vaccines at a time on little ones).
I just think we need to be really careful and VERY SPECIFIC when it comes to telling parents they don't get to raise their kids the way they want to. I'm not saying it's not needful...but it probably shouldn't be so far-reaching.
An unvaccinated 15 year old needs the Tdap/Td series, polio vaccine, Hepatitis A and B, HPV, MMR, meningitis and chickenpox. Tetanus is not related to travel, and it is the only VPD that is not communicable person to person. Tetanus spores are everywhere.
Yes, and some states do let underage kids get Hep B vaccine and HPV vaccine w/o parents' permission under that policy.
Your only quibble my, er, foot! You have expressed many other anti-vaccine beliefs on CD. Markg explained it well. Which of those vaccine preventable diseases would you like a small baby to get? Let me go through the list that two month olds get. Hepatitis B: Infants who get hep B disease have about a 90% chance of developing chronic hep B which can lead to cirrhosis and liver cancer. Diphtheria: A known killer. Fortunately very rare in this country. But if we stop vaccinating, we'll be right there with the countries of the former Soviet Union, who had a diphtheria epidemic when their health delivery system fell apart. Pertussis: The vast majority of DEATHS are in infants under 6 months. 50% of infants under 12 months who get pertussis are hospitalized. Tetanus: Spores are everywhere, including in dirt. Infants come into a lot of contact with dirt through crawling. Polio: Pretty much non-existent in this country, but only "an airplane ride away". One issue with unvaccinated people is they are more vulnerable to Vaccine Associated Paralytic Polio from the OPV, which is still used in some countries. Just think of what a visitor could start! Hib: Peak age for Hib meningitis is 6-18 months. Pneumococcal: Always with us. Have you ever seen a baby with pneumonia? I have. It's not a pretty sight. Rotavirus: An extreme form of diarrhea which can be deadly to little babies d/t dehydration.
Pick one, or more, for your child.
What makes you think it's cheaper to do them together than to spread them out?
An unvaccinated 15 year old needs the Tdap/Td series, polio vaccine, Hepatitis A and B, HPV, MMR, meningitis and chickenpox. Tetanus is not related to travel, and it is the only VPD that is not communicable person to person. Tetanus spores are everywhere.
I bow to your expertise and knowledge on this. Truly. I don't have a problem with vaccines. My kids had the full gammut of required vaccines. My hesitation is with overriding parental control. And it's a concern...not impotent rage or some such.
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