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PREFACE: I am NEITHER Anti-Vax NOR Pro-Vax. I do my research and make informed decisions. I have given my child some vaccines and refused others. (I need to start my thread this way so people don't jump to conclusions and begin flaming as usual)
Regarding vaccinations, there's no reason people should be so polarized on the topic. Nothing is black and white in life, so why would it be the case with vaccines? 100% effectiveness/ineffectiveness is even rare in medicine. C'mon, we all know that.
I'm just concerned that people go by a headline, or a shred of evidence, and suddenly they've taken an all-or-nothing stance. There are some members here (not mentioning names) that will vehemently demonize the opposing side. We're not going to learn anything that way.
I must also disclaim that I am more concerned with the spread of the pro-vax agenda, since it is big business, extremely profitable, and more far-reaching to the uninformed public.
There are academic/medical journals out there, and anyone can read the abstracts without having to pay, or if you like research, like me, for small fees you can read the studies in their entirety.
Remember, there are two primary argument concerning vaccinations: vaccine effectiveness and vaccine safety. These often get confused. Since this board leans heavily pro-vax, I just want to give some perspective on some legitimate research that exists. This is just a very small sampling:
There's lots and lots of legitimate info out there. I know it's easy to fall into one extreme end of the spectrum, but realize that there are no perfected arts, including medicine. Please stay informed.
Last edited by DonJuanQuixote; 04-01-2017 at 07:28 AM..
I am sure there are some risks but overall vaccination has been very helpful to the human race.
The elimination of polio alone has proven to be quite impressive, and welcome.
Vaccines are not recommended when the risk of exposure is very low. For instance very few US residents would be recommended to receive the TB vaccine, but in other countries that could be a serious threat.
I am not sure why so many younger people are against vaccination these days. Perhaps it is because they are unaware of the TB wards and the crippled polio victims we used to see. I think the critiques of the precaution have been overblown considerably in the internet age.
The most read articles in a Google search are shown the most. A lot of people don't know this. Further, negative news is reported the most. Because of this so called research, we have anti-vax young parents, fearful of autism. If they want their offspring to not have autism, then dont expose sound waves to a developing fetus brain aka sonogram.
I am sure there are some risks but overall vaccination has been very helpful to the human race.
The elimination of polio alone has proven to be quite impressive, and welcome.
Vaccines are not recommended when the risk of exposure is very low. For instance very few US residents would be recommended to receive the TB vaccine, but in other countries that could be a serious threat.
I am not sure why so many younger people are against vaccination these days. Perhaps it is because they are unaware of the TB wards and the crippled polio victims we used to see. I think the critiques of the precaution have been overblown considerably in the internet age.
You would be very surprised at the number of older adults who "witnessed" all you say you did and still consider themselves anti-vaxxers. If not, why aren't their vaccination rates in the 90% range either?
After all how did we manage to reach the ages we did without Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Chicken Pox, FLU vaccinations? These are now as DEADLY as what you mentioned. When they come up with a vaccine for the Common Cold that too will be deadly too in order to SELL vaccinations.
Because science has been politicized. That's not a recent development either. It's likely been around since science existed at all. Thomas Hobbes even used a non-scientific argument in a way that tried to pass as scientific. Hobbes was writing when science was fairly new, almost before science was even a thing. In the late 1800s, Darwin's theories were applied in non-scientific ways, creating what we call social Darwinism. It was a viewpoint that made some sense, at least logically, though it still was never a scientific argument, though it saw wide spread popularity, even amongst some scientists.
And that last sentence is important; even scientists can be wrong. This is something that is true of all things, though that possibility of inaccuracy is often overused by those who have some motivation to keep scientific fact from surfacing. Rather it's oil companies are proponents of 'natural medicine,' small bits of missing data, or minuscule risk factors or whatever small uncertainty may exist are exploited in such a way to doubt entire studies. It's why there's apparently a debate on if climate change exists; a debate on how or even if we can or should address it is one thing, but to debate rather or not the research is valid is something else entirely.
Vaccines are another problem area. Proponents of natural medicine and various conspiracy theorists have an irrational fear of vaccines. Many use incomplete or out of context data to back their claims, some outright lying. The scariest thing is that many have been caught in the lie and still continue to support it. It's an issue of scientific literacy. When fewer people can think scientifically, more will buy into pseudo-science.
If you want a very simple answer, it would be the same for both pro and anti-vax people: fear.
Generally speaking, I think vaccinations have saved a lot of lives, but I also think we tend to over-vaccinate. Low-effectiveness shots for low-risk things? Why bother? Having said that, I got a flu shot this season that I neither wanted nor felt I needed. I did it because I have an elderly housemate who feared exposure, and it gave her peace of mind.
I don't know what to think of the whole vaccine/autism thing. Most arguments I've seen tend to be against it, but it seems the jury is still out. I do have to wonder if other environmental factors, like ever-increasing additives in food, could also play a role.
If you want a very simple answer, it would be the same for both pro and anti-vax people: fear.
Generally speaking, I think vaccinations have saved a lot of lives, but I also think we tend to over-vaccinate. Low-effectiveness shots for low-risk things? Why bother? Having said that, I got a flu shot this season that I neither wanted nor felt I needed. I did it because I have an elderly housemate who feared exposure, and it gave her peace of mind.
I don't know what to think of the whole vaccine/autism thing. Most arguments I've seen tend to be against it, but it seems the jury is still out. I do have to wonder if other environmental factors, like ever-increasing additives in food, could also play a role.
Actually, the jury has decided; there is no evidence linking autism to vaccines (and to be clear, this does technically mean it's still possible, but within the field of science, a possibility [hypothesis] needs something substantial before it can move on to being true [a theory]).
Most 'studies' on this assume that causation and correlation go hand in hand. This is not the case. They usually sight increases in vaccinations and increases in autism happening at similar times. However, most experts seem to agree that this is likely unrelated. Our understanding of autism is growing and it then stands to reason that our ability to diagnose it would increase with it. So, while actually autism diagnoses has increased, there's no evidence for rates of autism actually increasing, certainly not in relation to vaccinations.
Actually, the jury has decided; there is no evidence linking autism to vaccines (and to be clear, this does technically mean it's still possible, but within the field of science, a possibility [hypothesis] needs something substantial before it can move on to being true [a theory]).
Most 'studies' on this assume that causation and correlation go hand in hand. This is not the case. They usually sight increases in vaccinations and increases in autism happening at similar times. However, most experts seem to agree that this is likely unrelated. Our understanding of autism is growing and it then stands to reason that our ability to diagnose it would increase with it. So, while actually autism diagnoses has increased, there's no evidence for rates of autism actually increasing, certainly not in relation to vaccinations.
The matter of increased awareness did cross my mind, but what can I say? It's Saturday night, and I guess I am feeling a little lazy. That probably sounds very flippant, but it really wasn't meant to. Southern springs are new to me, and after a few days of sneezing my brains out, I am well and truly exhausted.
I think the puzzle (I have to love that the Autism ribbon looks like a jigsaw) is going to take a very long time to unravel. I am clearly no scientist, but I suspect there may be several factors. Mostly, I am just glad that the spectrum is now taken seriously, and that most people seem to have a bit more compassion about it than they did even a few years ago.
personally i dont care if some want to vaccinate, and others dont. i will however side with freedom to choose. as long as vaccines are not forced down peoples throats, i have no issue with them.
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That probably sounds very flippant, but it really wasn't meant to. Southern springs are new to me, and after a few days of sneezing my brains out, I am well and truly exhausted.