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My father was 49 when I was born and my mother was 36. My father was a young looking guy though for his age and most often times most people thought he was just a few years older than my mom (not 13). I didn't mind at all. A few times when I was older people thought he was my grandpa but that didn't bother me one bit.
My father did everything for me and my mom was a homemaker although when I was in school she started substitue teaching. My father took us to all sorts of "old people" vacations--or so I thought growing up--it was generally road trips to see dead presidents homes and what not--at the time I thought it was sort of stupid but now I appreciate those trips--much better than some dumb amusement park or going to disney every year.
My father died when I was 22 and my mother became disabled when I was 24. My maternal grandmother (who is 90) still lives on her own--although now it is my responsibility to care for my mother and grandmother.
So what I'm saying is that I don't think you are too old if you and your wife truly desire this in your hearts.
Personally though I am not into the kids thing as pretty much you grow up and get slapped in the face by real life (jobs, death, health, dead ends) etc--but that's just the pesimist in me--I couldn't imagine bringing a new life into this twisted world.
Personally though I am not into the kids thing as pretty much you grow up and get slapped in the face by real life (jobs, death, health, dead ends) etc--but that's just the pesimist in me--I couldn't imagine bringing a new life into this twisted world.
I too felt that way in my 20's but after time went by, well here I am looking into it pretty hard.
My dad is a very "old" 62. Meaning when he would drop me off at high school he would ask me why the boys weren't wearing "slacks and tucked in golf shirts" or, my favorite, "why are people wearing thongs (flip flops) in public! This is not the beach". Kinda funny however.
When I have kids I will always keep in mind that I am an older parent. I hope to keep an open mind and "up with the times" with my kids and younger parents. And not sound like a grandfather (which i will almost be)LOL
To the OP: here is some advice from two somewhat older parents that will severely go against the "popular" grain. I will give you our very sincere perspective as "subjective" as it might sound.
I was 32 when we had our first, and my husband, was 40; then we had a second at 35 (me) and 42 (him).
And now here's the piece of advice:
DON'T HAVE THEM.
There is one line that someone wrote which contains a lot of truth. Once you have them, you cannot imagine life without them.
Truer words have never been spoken. The trick is that this line does not mean that you should have them in the first place.
In my homecountry, we have a saying along the lines of:
"those who have kids - may they enjoy them for a long time; those who do not have kids - may they never desire them".
As my husband and I were reading through the answers you received, we could not help getting increasingly frustrated at the large number of slogans, cliches, platitudes, PC lines and downright non-truths that people write in regards with having kids (now at relatively advanced ages too, which makes things even worse!) - just because those are the popular and socially acceptable things to say.
But keep in mind that there is a world of "dark secrets" when it comes to having kids in today's day and age that most people will never be willing to admit to, not even to themselves, let alone to others, in writing.
"Kids keep you younger".
Major lie. In fact they age you quicker than you would ever imagine - especially today. There's no magic in it, just biology.
Historical context plays a major role, of course, and you can bet your dime that raising children today is an infinitely harder job than what previous generations faced in regards with this task. This is especially because most parents do it completely alone, in the context of the isolated, nuclear family, always in a frantic rush to get things done and schedule things, including aspects as simple as children playing with other children. In the past this was done naturally, in front of the house, among neighborhood kids, while parents were able to breathe for a moment or just go about their household chores without being asked for attention or being interrupted every 20 seconds. The mental stress can be enormous.
Overall, expectations weigh 1000 times more on the parents' shoulders today whereas resources in terms of parental energy have been severely decimated. This is especially true if you will be one of the very numerous contemporary American families who cannot count on support or consistent, hands-on help with children from extended families living nearby. Having available grandparents around or some other kind of close, involved relative who actually gives a "D**n, is hugely important, even if this is not something often acknolwdged in this culture.
But this does not make it less important.
As for aging, I am not saying this just based on our experience, as we aged at least 10 years in the past 5, since we've had them. But I remember a few good years ago, right before we had kids, we went to my husband's high-school reunion and I was shocked at how old all those people looked compared to my husband and just one other guy. When I told my husband about it he said: well, it just happens that me and this other guy you're talking about are the only ones without children.
One year later we had our first and five years later we are both looking so much older it is not even funny - yes, mainly because of exhaustion, stress, sleep deprivation, worries, etc.
"You just have to look in your heart of hearts to figure out whether you REALLY want a child".
I have never heard anything lamer before. Humans simply don't operate like this. There is no "heart of hearts" that will tell you whether you should REALLY have a child or not. Before you have them, you'll want them. When people don't have children, most feel like they will be missing out, they crave the love and all the "sparklies" that come with having children, and they, of course, focus mainly on the cute baby/toddler years and not necessarily on what kind of world your future 20+ yo will face.
If you want to know hown the world is going to look like then and later for your presumed adult child, do yourself a favor and read William Catton's "Bottleneck: Humanity's Impending Impasse" - a sociological masterpiece. There is a good chance this might cure your desires. It sure as Heck would have cured mine had I read this book 6 years ago.
"Having kids young is worse for them because they live in small apartments/rentals instead of the ideal suburban house with a picket fenced yard, stuffed with tons of plastic toys, clothes and what have you which the parents could not have afforded when they were young".
Reality: children could not care less about what kind of real estate they live in.
Another piece of reality: kids hardly benefit from the mountain of plastic toys or cute clothes or what have you that pile up in your average western (particularly American) child's house nowadays.
In fact, those are often harmful.
What you will need mainly is a lot - and I do mean A LOT!!! - of energy. Both you and your spouse better be loaded with it at this age.
"My child will benefit from my old age because at this age, I don't neet to socialize with friends anymore and I can give all my free time to him/her".
Few ideas have been more succesful in contributing to the formation of a generation of completely-child-led families and painfully self-centered children, virtually incapable of interacting with their age peers in healthy ways and convinced that the Universe (starting with their parents) was created to turn around them.
Today's children are already over-focused on by their parents - as is.
Giving them 100% of parental free time is a very bad idea, not a good one.
What contemporary children need is more time spent in the company of age peers - playing freely, in unstructured ways - while their parents get a chance to focus on their marriage too instead of being perpetually busy driving the kid to some kind of organized playdate, soccer ball, karate, swimming...and I could go on 30 other lines.
Subliminal message to the child? "Mom and dad don't have any needs of their own, it's all about you, little darling".
But you'll do it - because everyone else does it. Or else - your kid will have no one to play with. Another dreadful prospect.
In fact it is the marriage, NOT the child, that is at the heart of any family. When the kids leave the nest, you better have something left at the heart. Many families today don't manage to keep that "heart" intact given the child-led family climate. Understandably so - ... then comes the divorce.
If you do decide to have children nevertheless, do yourself a different kind of favor and read John Rosemond's "A Family of Value" - the ONLY parenting book you should ever read, yet one that would be very difficult to apply in today's childrearing climate.
Good luck with it, anyway.
One additional piece of advice: if you happen to be a person somewhat intellectually inclined, who enjoys adult conversation with spouse or whoever, you should consider the advice above even more seriously.
Not everybody will suffer equally from working like a slave all day only to have to go to bed the very moment kids are tucked in, without having any time left for any sort of adult conversation - because tomorrow they have to start everything all over again without delay.
But for those who have such cerebral needs, children can be almost lethal to one's mental health. Often times, parents will stay up late just to squeeze in those uninterrupted adult conversations or you name it - and the sleep deprivation will soon become unbearable.
And it WILL age you. A lot. I promise.
All that being said, you might be shocked to hear that we DO love our children more than anything in the world and we are aware, at every moment, that the stress and exhaustion they cause us is not anywhere close to their fault. I certainly wish I'd known 6 years ago a bit more about what it means to parent in America without any available extended family around - on either side. I also wish I'd been aware of the REAL prospects this world will have 20-30-40-50 years from now (the lifetime of my children). It is because I love them beyond words that I often feel I made a mistake dropping them in a world that will hardly be pretty when they are all grown up.
All in all, had I known then what I know today, and with my experience so far as a parent - I probably would have chosen NOT TO have children.
Chances are though, if you got the bug - you'll do it anyway.
Nobody ever said it was easy. Most worthwhile things are anything but easy. While you do raise some good points, its ultimately a bit cynical. However, if I could, I would make it required reading for any teenager who is so cavalier about sex as to disdain the use of birth control. Stable couples should know already.
But for those who have such cerebral needs, children can be almost lethal to one's mental health. Often times, parents will stay up late just to squeeze in those uninterrupted adult conversations or you name it - and the sleep deprivation will soon become unbearable.
And it WILL age you. A lot. I promise.
Lethal to one's mental health?? Not if one is mentally balanced before having kids...
Sleep deprivation is awful at any age...doesn't matter if you are 20 or 40...expect to be tired during the night feeding stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa
All in all, had I known then what I know today, and with my experience so far as a parent - I probably would have chosen NOT TO have children.
This is not to be snarky or mean but hopefully helpful: have you been evaluated for postpartum depression? Do you have a positive support group; family, playgroups??
Regardless of how much you love your children, they will at some point pick up on your resentment and bitterness that is permeating your post. Being a parent is the toughest job in the world, we give, give, give and then give some more, but most of us find it very rewarding and even in the tough times, can't imagine life without them!
I only 36, but have a 5 y/o, and although I love him to death, and love having a child (would love another), and couldn't imagine life without him, I could not imagine having another at 40, or even my first.
Sure, it might be easier raising them, and from a financial/maturity standpoint, would be great. But you need to think of your financial future too.
Most guys I know that are in their 50's (And I work with a lot of them) are thinking of nothing but retiring. They are empty nesters or close enough to it. By the time your kids are 18 you are pushing 60 and have to think about their college, getting them out on their own, when you should be thinking about the next 20 years of your life. You have to make sacrifices to have kids, no matter what age, but just don't forget that you may be giving up on a comfortable retirement.
My dad remarried and had kids again at 45. I didnt think much of it until I got older and had a son of my own. But he will not be retiring anytime soon, and is probably busier now in his life trying to stay employed just to cover medical. Not to mention his own medical problems.
Despite all of this, I still say go for it, at it is rewarding. But never forget what you may be giving up.
I only 36, but have a 5 y/o, and although I love him to death, and love having a child (would love another), and couldn't imagine life without him, I could not imagine having another at 40, or even my first.
Sure, it might be easier raising them, and from a financial/maturity standpoint, would be great. But you need to think of your financial future too.
Most guys I know that are in their 50's (And I work with a lot of them) are thinking of nothing but retiring. They are empty nesters or close enough to it. By the time your kids are 18 you are pushing 60 and have to think about their college, getting them out on their own, when you should be thinking about the next 20 years of your life. You have to make sacrifices to have kids, no matter what age, but just don't forget that you may be giving up on a comfortable retirement.
Despite all of this, I still say go for it, at it is rewarding. But never forget what you may be giving up.
If any parent, whether they are 25 or 55, waits until their kid is 18 to think about college, they have a pretty faulty thought process- unless they can simply write a check right there and then. Those of us who cannot i.e. the majority should start saving the minute the kid is born, if not sooner.
Likewise, I have been saving for retirement since I was 25- and I think I got a late start. Is it so difficult to save for more than one thing?
Your post speaks to people who are clueless when it comes to personal finance. A real problem to be sure. However, I don't see what it has to do with those of us who had a kid around 40. My kid will be entering college just when I would (ideally) like to retire. I will hand over his college fund and mom and I will take our 401(K)s and IRAs. If he needs to crash with us after graduation, not a problem.
Where I come from, they call this good planning and perfect timing.
Lethal to one's mental health?? Not if one is mentally balanced before having kids...
Sleep deprivation is awful at any age...doesn't matter if you are 20 or 40...expect to be tired during the night feeding stage.
This is not to be snarky or mean but hopefully helpful: have you been evaluated for postpartum depression? Do you have a positive support group; family, playgroups??
Regardless of how much you love your children, they will at some point pick up on your resentment and bitterness that is permeating your post. Being a parent is the toughest job in the world, we give, give, give and then give some more, but most of us find it very rewarding and even in the tough times, can't imagine life without them!
Dear renovating,
The OP was asking for opinions. I gave him my most sincere one.
I sincerely believe that anyone considering having children relatively late in life (or even whenever), who is on the fence about it and asking for opinions from other parents - deserves to be told a little bit about the other side too, the one called "reality". Sugar-coated slogans and cliches about having children - he'll hear every step of the day.
Contrary to contemporary popular wisdom, parenting HAS NOT always been the "tough job" people are faced with today. Historically, parenting has been just...well...part of life, nothing of the magnitude society has turned parenting into today. In fact, it was quite easy for the vast majority of people. It was something that parents JUST did, helped along by extended families, and indirectly by local and stable communities, neighbors, etc - all in face-to-face, personal, daily, hands-on fashion.
Let alone that for many families, especially the rural kind, children meant real, concrete help around the farm and household - so they actually made things easier for families, not harder.
Obviously, this is no longer the case today, and then so much more. Hence the incredible exhaustion of many parents, particularly those who do it all on their own, which means an increasingly larger chunk of couples. To say nothing of single parents - I'd rather not even think about it.
You say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by renovating
Do you have a positive support group; family, playgroups??
...all while successfully managing to miss exactly one of the main points I was making about today's parenting climate. Many nuclear families today DO NOT have any extended family around on either side. It is the way it is. The so-called "free" market economy gone wild is not exactly helping with family life when families have to pack up and move for a job at the drop of a hat, away from established support systems. As for playgroups - again, this is exactly what I was talking about. Parents also have to work and get things done around the house in addition to hauling kids around so they can make it to their scheduled playgroup and get some "fun" in. In fact, the kind of playgroups most parents of small children rely on today are more cumbersome than helpful.
Neighborhoods are empty while cars zipp up and down the roads hauling kids for some kind of scheduled play date. Whatever happened to watching your kids from the kitchen window having a blast with neighborhood friends in the backyard while you actually get to get some work done around the house? Or for your work-from-home job?
Cooking anyone? Oh, I know: there are always store-bought chicken nuggets drowned in preservatives, as well as carrot sticks who will give parents the illusion they promote "healthy eating" in the house even if the children furiously refuse them (who the H wouldn't?). Why fill the day with cooking fresh and tasty meals at home when you have play dates to attend, even as a SAHM or WFHM or whatever kind of mom this crazy world has been making up lately?
How about a SM? (to be read "sane mom"). Not that many left - despite what they may tell you.
In a nutshell: I do not recognize the existence of organized playgroups as a support system for the parent. The only support system that would really make a difference for the parent would be close neighbors keeping an eye on each other's kids while the kids naturally play together outside - on a daily basis. F OP's I: that kind of support doesn't exist anymore. Playgroups (the ONLY kind of play today) is just yet another activity to add to the already endless to-do list of your typical exhausted parent.
In addition, not all of us get their kicks out of participating in "mommy groups". I would much rather have some uninterrupted time with my husband or a few close friends, having conversations on slightly more complex topics than cheerios, no-slippy-hair-clippes, soccer sign up or what have you - all while the kids are completely off to a supposed grandma. Some parents really need some actual ADULT time.
You can do 1000 evaluations for PPD or Lord knows what else. At the end of the day, that won't change a thing.
Of course people are going to be "depressed" when they experience that much burden raising their kids - even though many won't identify it as such and would never admit to things being this way. All say "oh, we are so exhausted, it is so hard, we have no time to ourselves, but nobody said it was going to be easy... but it's oh, so rewarding".
All until you hear about yet another marriage that bit the dust, usually after kids are old enough for parents to feel somewhat less guilty.
It shouldn't take a PhD in psychology.
However, considering society is not about to change just to take such historically unprecedented burdens off the shoulders of parents, many parent-wannabes would be well advised to just pass. The problem is there are very few individuals out there willing to articulate the truth, simply because it makes people highly uncomfortable and it is highly PI.
Yet there are honest books out there written on the subject and they do strike a major cord when parents read them in private.
Again, after all - the OP was just asking for opinions.
I thought I would add some variety for the sake of the TRUTH.
Last edited by syracusa; 06-09-2010 at 01:40 PM..
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