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I understood we were only talking about the city (which is what is listed above). it seems population growth has mostly been good to lancaster, it;s crime rate is down slightly, there isn't that much blight, and it has more to do than in the past.
reading seems to be on a different trajectory but I think it would be hard to argue that more blight and abandonment would be an improvement there.
In hindsight I should have listed the present population of these cities and their geographic area. Since I don't know how to make tables in this forum, the data ends up looking messy.
In this particular case, Lancaster City is a relatively small 7.4 square miles. Although it's population reached it's high water mark a long time ago, it is down only one person per acre from it's peak. It could theoretically return to that population with minimal new construction simply by introducing more families.
An important point is that Allentown returned to a high water population without any massive increase in construction within the city limits. Much of the housing was the 19th century homes when 4 children was much more normal. Typically, today there are 2.5 people in a residence which means a lot of people living alone.
The massive influx of Latino population into Allentown probably came with a lot more children. Simply by occupying homes with 4 people per home, which is still much less than what they were designed for, would return the population to earlier decades.
Allentown's school district is far and away the most troubled in the Lehigh Valley.
Without turning this post into an anti-Latino rant, there is clearly demographic differences between people trying to escape the poverty of the Bronx and an aging population descended mostly from Europeans. A return to population peak of old doesn't necessarily mean a rash of shiny expensive new condominiums.
Pennsylvania (if I am not mistaken) is not getting a lot of immigration from foreign countries. Every chart I read indicates that it is children and grandchildren of immigrants into the New York area who are primarily looking for lower cost living. We are talking about the cities here, and not the commuters who want a 3000 square foot home with a half an acre of land, and can't find one they can afford in New Jersey.
In the USA, the highest density zip codes are the upper east side Manhattan where poverty is rare. But I should note that I am a fan of density among the less well to do. I lived in a small city in Mexico of a quarter of a million for six months, where people largely eat from stands on the street or in the market and many people do not have cars. The density was between that of Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. It was not near the border, and violence was not high. It is pleasant to be able to walk around and get almost everything you need. You realize how much space our culture uses to very low efficiency.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-09-2012 at 04:58 AM..
Allentown and Reading both have growing populations, but whether or not that is a good thing depends on who you ask. The people moving in are extremely poor.
The outer zip codes of Allentown along with the rest of the immediate Lehigh Valley surrounding Allentown proper has enjoyed a influx of population that is both productive and educated.
The center city area of Allentown for the past 15 years has been a magnet for the very poor mostly from cities outside PA.
They have come from northern NJ and NYC mostly due to extremely low rental rates comparatively to where they came from.
The huge negative is that this migration has brought a heavy strain on social services and rapid increase in crime during this time of population growth of the center city area.
Allentown however is in the very beginning phases of gentrification of center city by the construction of the hocky arena which has lured contracts for construction for an upper tier hotel property, signed business contracts for relocation to the area along with construction plans for river front revitalization.
This will take a solid decade to see any real progress in taking a good chunk of this area back from abject poverty but it will happen and I hope it pushes many with money to move into the neighborhoods to the north of this developing area.
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In this particular case, Lancaster City is a relatively small 7.4 square miles. Although it's population reached it's high water mark a long time ago, it is down only one person per acre from it's peak. It could theoretically return to that population with minimal new construction simply by introducing more families.
the NW section of the city still has wide open sections where armstrong industries used to be. in the old days the train station was downtown and the freight rail yards were in the north. they moved the station in the 20's in time for urban decline to set in. now that industry has disappeared there is a good chunk of new real estate, I also think lancaster could see some midrise construction downtown. it really needs to address its streetscape to make it more pedestrian friendly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin
Pennsylvania (if I am not mistaken) is not getting a lot of immigration from foreign countries. Every chart I read indicates that it is children and grandchildren of immigrants into the New York area who are primarily looking for lower cost living. We are talking about the cities here, and not the commuters who want a 3000 square foot home with a half an acre of land, and can't find one they can afford in New Jersey.
for the most part that's correct with one exception, Philadelphia. most of the immigrants there are coming directly from the island in the case of dominicans (in many cases from a single town or region)..the same is true of the growing mexican population. in southwest pa immigration is fairly new but it seems to be coming from the american southwest. what you are talking about mainly affects the area north of Philly and places like reading. I'm not sure about lancaster, it's been heavily latino for decades, but maybe the new dominicans are coming from the ny area, I don't know, I've certainly met a good number of ex-new yorkers there that aren't hispanic.
I don't know, I've certainly met a good number of ex-new yorkers there that aren't hispanic.
Relatively few inside city limits. Bethlehem city gets some very high profile cases of relatively wealthy New Yorkers who move into the city and buy some old estate. In some cases there wealth only meant that they had a valuable, but small, home in the city, and it was relatively easy to exchange for a pre WWII grand home in Bethlehem. A friend of mine exchanged his studio on the upper West side for a 4 bedroom brand new house, and his Honda and the huge rent he paid on a parking spot for a Jaguar in Bethlehem.
You can tell by the growth in the Latino population. It's physically impossible to grow that fast by having more children.
Relatively few inside city limits. Bethlehem city gets some very high profile cases of relatively wealthy New Yorkers who move into the city and buy some old estate. In some cases there wealth only meant that they had a valuable, but small, home in the city, and it was relatively easy to exchange for a pre WWII grand home in Bethlehem. A friend of mine exchanged his studio on the upper West side for a 4 bedroom brand new house, and his Honda and the huge rent he paid on a parking spot for a Jaguar in Bethlehem.
You can tell by the growth in the Latino population. It's physically impossible to grow that fast by having more children.
Wealthy people are few in number so thats not really a surprise. You can't use Hispanic growth to shoe that other people arent moving there and it can't even be used to show immigration since Lancaster is heavily Puerto Rican and has been for some time...with an established Latino community its entirely possible people are coming from the island.I'd go further and guess that few places are growing because of an influx of wealthy people. Even inphilly the influx of well to do is small in relation to immigration..many of whom come from foreign nations in addition to ny
Even inphilly the influx of well to do is small in relation to immigration..many of whom come from foreign nations in addition to ny
Well, I can't characterize what "many" is, but I would expect the population of foreign born would be higher in Pennsylvania.
You are "foreign born" your whole life, whether you become a naturalized citizen or not. So if these "foreign born" immigrants in Philadelphia are direct from their country, or transplants from New York, then they are counted as FB.
Given that the percentage for Pennsylvania (for 2011) is so much lower than the other mid-Atlantic states, I must assume that much of the immigration is domestic.
22.2% New York
21.5% New Jersey 19.4% Florida
14.9% Massachusetts 13.9% Maryland
13.5% District of Columbia
13.5% Rhode Island
13.4% Connecticut 8.4% Delaware
7.3% North Carolina
6.1% Michigan
6.0% Idaho 5.9% Pennsylvania
Just because of how much smaller families/households are today, I don't see Pittsburgh ever having a chance to getting close to having 675,000 residents in my lifetime (I'm 21). The only way Pittsburgh would get a population that high is to start building up again with condos and apartment buildings and I don't want that.
Well, I can't characterize what "many" is, but I would expect the population of foreign born would be higher in Pennsylvania.
You are "foreign born" your whole life, whether you become a naturalized citizen or not. So if these "foreign born" immigrants in Philadelphia are direct from their country, or transplants from New York, then they are counted as FB.
Given that the percentage for Pennsylvania (for 2011) is so much lower than the other mid-Atlantic states, I must assume that much of the immigration is domestic.
22.2% New York
21.5% New Jersey 19.4% Florida
14.9% Massachusetts 13.9% Maryland
13.5% District of Columbia
13.5% Rhode Island
13.4% Connecticut 8.4% Delaware
7.3% North Carolina
6.1% Michigan
6.0% Idaho 5.9% Pennsylvania
Pennsylvania is a state, Philadelphia is a city. foreign born population in Philadelphia is not 5.9%. Philadelphia makes up 12% of PA's population, NYC makes up 42% of NY state's population. If one assumes NYC is 48% foreign born, that means the rest of NYS is around 3% foreign born. Philadelphia is in the 12-14% range (far higher than a generation ago, or even less..and the lower figure is legal immigrants I believe) which means the state is around 5% outside the city.. in no way am I saying Philly is on par with NY BUT it is simply false to say no foreign born immigrants are moving directly to the state..and it's wrong to infer that what is true of the lehigh valley is true for the whole state. can we at least agree that since Puerto Ricans are US citizens they are not foreign born?
BUT it is simply false to say no foreign born immigrants are moving directly to the state..and it's wrong to infer that what is true of the lehigh valley is true for the whole state. can we at least agree that since Puerto Ricans are US citizens they are not foreign born?
I didn't think that I said that no foreign born immigrants are moving directly to the state. That would make me an idiot. I was trying to characterize the core basis of the population change. Direct immigration from other countries is a relatively minor percentage of the change.
Most citizens who identify as Puerto Rican were born in the lower 48. Yes, you are correct that even if they were born on the island they are not foreign born. And a significant percentage of Latinos in PA cities do identify as Puerto Rican.
If I am not mistaken, Miami is the only city of population over 1/3 million anywhere in any country in the world where more than 50% of the population is foreign born.
Rank Place Percent
1 Miami city, FL 60.6
2 Santa Ana city, CA 48.4 3 Los Angeles city, CA 41.3 4 Anaheim city, CA 40.3
5 San Francisco city, CA 36.7
6 San Jose city, CA 36.5 7 New York city, NY 36.0 8 Long Beach city, CA 30.9 9 Houston city, TX 28.1
10 San Diego city, CA 27.9 11 Oakland city, CA 27.1 B
12 Boston city, MA 27.0 13 Dallas city, TX 26.5 14 Sacramento city, CA 26.4
15 Honolulu CDP, HI 25.5
16 El Paso city, TX 24.9 17
17 Stockton city, CA 24.2
18 Riverside city, CA 23.9
19 Fresno city, CA 22.7 20 Chicago city, IL 22.6 21 Newark city, NJ 22.4 22 Phoenix city, AZ 21.1 22 Las Vegas city, NV 21.1
24 Denver city, CO 20.2
25 Austin city, TX 19.6
26 Aurora city, CO 17.7
27 Minneapolis city, MN 17.6
28 Seattle city, WA 17.2
29 Arlington city, TX 16.6
30 St. Paul city, MN 16.3
31 Fort Worth city, TX 15.6
32 Washington city, DC 14.6
33 Tampa city, FL 14.0
34 Tucson city, AZ 13.8
35 Bakersfield city, CA 13.4
36 Portland city, OR 12.9
37 Mesa city, AZ 12.8
38 Raleigh city, NC 12.3
39 Charlotte city, NC 12.0 40 San Antonio city, TX 11.2 41 Oklahoma City city, OK 10.5
42 Albuquerque city, NM 10.0 42 Philadelphia city, PA 10.0 44 Milwaukee city, WI 9.5
45 Colorado Springs city, CO 9.4
46 Nashville-Davidson (balance), TN 9.0
47 Jacksonville city, FL 8.5
48 Wichita city, KS 8.2
49 Columbus city, OH 8.1
50 Anchorage municipality, AK 8.0
51 Lexington-Fayette, KY 7.8
52 Cleveland city, OH 7.6
53 Pittsburgh city, PA 7.3
54 Omaha city, NE 6.7
55 Detroit city, MI 6.4
56 Atlanta city, GA 6.3
56 Virginia Beach city, VA 6.3
58 Cincinnati city, OH 6.2
59 Baltimore city, MD 6.1
59 Tulsa city, OK 6.1
61 Corpus Christi city, TX 5.9
62 Kansas City city, MO 5.8
63 St. Louis city, MO 5.7
64 Indianapolis city (balance), IN 4.9
65 Buffalo city, NY 4.7
66 Memphis city, TN 4.2
67 New Orleans city, LA 3.4
68 Louisville city, KY 3.2
68 Toledo city, OH 3.2
Source: U.S. Census Bureau, American Community Survey
Of the nine cities that are over 1 million, Philadelphia is the lowest. San Antonio is the most latino city of the nine cities, but most of the population was born in the United States. South Texas was the most heavily populated of the Mexican territories taken by the United States after the Mexican-American war.
Last edited by PacoMartin; 11-10-2012 at 06:12 AM..
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