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Serious question. And I’m generally a big PA and Philadelphia booster, before anyone accuses me of being negative.
I’m not looking for answers to all of these questions, but is there anyone else out there that thinks like me?
Why is it that when I read the news or literally go to any other state or region, I see capacity enhancements and service restoration? Just as an example, I was driving to Baltimore last month, I noticed the massive widening effort starting in rural Maryland, on 95. That road has consistently been enhanced over the last 30 years. The Schuylkill Expressway? It remains jammed with its two lanes each way through busy Montgomery County. How do we accept this? The Blue Route drops to two lanes in its last 6 miles due to a court order, so it jams every day. Are we that countrified as a region that we seem to be ok with this?
Why is the sad state of our infrastructure ok to us? Why does the Federal government pour money into other regions and states, but not here?
Why does 95 in PA drop down to 2 lanes in parts of Delco and Bucks? In lousy Delaware the highway is bigger and better. We are literally decades behind neighboring states.
Before demeaning me and says that road widenings encourage development and we should instead spend our money on trains, I’ll now point out that in 30 years, SEPTA has done basically nothing to enhance capacity except the recently-opened 3-mile extension to Wawa, for which they pay themselves on the back as if systems in Boston and other cities aren’t expanding much quicker.
Why are 22 and 78 in the Lehigh Valley (PA’s third most populous region) two lanes each way? Why is 78 so much bigger when you get to NJ?
Why are there heavily-developed municipalities in PA that contain little to no street lighting, such as Upper Merion Township (ie King of Prussia) and huge swaths of suburban Philadelphia? Why are there crappy two-lane roads with no turning lanes at busy intersections that were rendered obsolete 20-30 years ago? We have failed to face, acknowledge, and accept change. We are our own worst enemy in this regard, and we can’t get out of our own way.
How have other, lesser states done so much while we have done so little?
Is all of this a result of Pennsylvania country mentality, or Pennsylvania frugality? It’s really sad how behind we are in regards to infrastructure.
I mean they just built a massive new I-95 deck through Philadelphia and some of it isn't even open yet still.
The reason why 95 shrinks is because, "95" as we knew it is now I-295. This happened a few years ago when the interchange near Trenton was finally finished.
but in terms of overall infrastructure though out the state, when you take into consideration we have the highest gas tax, then no I am not particularly happy with the state of many bridges and roads. One thing PennDot does that absolutely drives me crazy, is they tend to leave like old construction signs and sandbags and other things on the side of the road way more often than any other state DOT I have ever seen.
For as much as people hate on NJ, they have for the most part pretty nice highways until you get real close to NYC. If I were from Montco, I would be pissed that the highway isn't cleaned often enough coming out of North Philly
Last edited by thedirtypirate; 01-06-2023 at 08:16 AM..
Absolutely not. Our roads and bridges in the Pittsburgh region are largely deteriorating. Our light rail system only benefits folks living in one direction from the city and has no solid plans for expansion in any other direction. Litter is pervasive. I try my best to pick up litter around my neighborhood, but within weeks it looks like war-torn Bosnia again. On my drive back from Scranton to Pittsburgh through the Commonwealth on 12/26/2022 the left-hand/passing lane on westbound U.S. Route 22 in Cambria County was still largely untreated/unplowed after a snowfall that ended on 12/23/2022. Many of our suburbs still don't have sidewalks.
Don't worry. We have plentiful revenue-generating PSP troopers hiding in every other median crossover road to ticket folks for speeding through rural areas along I-80 or I-99, though.
Why is it that when I read the news or literally go to any other state or region, I see capacity enhancements and service restoration? Just as an example, I was driving to Baltimore last month, I noticed the massive widening effort starting in rural Maryland, on 95. That road has consistently been enhanced over the last 30 years. The Schuylkill Expressway? It remains jammed with its two lanes each way through busy Montgomery County. How do we accept this? The Blue Route drops to two lanes in its last 6 miles due to a court order, so it jams every day. Are we that countrified as a region that we seem to be ok with this?
Preaching to the choir. IMO, the Blue Route was obsolete before it was even completed. The NIMBYs who successfully kept 476 two lanes from the Broomall/Havertown exit to Macdade Blvd. shot themselves in the foot. And for what? Now they complain about the traffic; but you can't have it both ways.
Regarding the Schuykill, the only way to fix it in Montgomery County is to build an upper deck so that traffic going east has four lanes and traffic going west has four lanes. This is because much of the highway is sandwiched in between the river and hills (some of which have houses built on them). This would likely cost in the billions, so I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BPP1999
Why are there heavily-developed municipalities in PA that contain little to no street lighting, such as Upper Merion Township (ie King of Prussia) and huge swaths of suburban Philadelphia? Why are there crappy two-lane roads with no turning lanes at busy intersections that were rendered obsolete 20-30 years ago? We have failed to face, acknowledge, and accept change. We are our own worst enemy in this regard, and we can’t get out of our own way.
In my opinion, the little-to-no streetlights and no sidewalks situation is probably more closely related to a country mentality. Or just simply NIMBY, anti-development sentiment. I agree with neither.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate
but in terms of overall infrastructure though out the state, when you take into consideration we have the highest gas tax, then no I am not particularly happy with the state of many bridges and roads. One thing PennDot does that absolutely drives me crazy, is they tend to leave like old construction signs and sandbags and other things on the side of the road way more often than any other state DOT I have ever seen.
OMG, yes! Drives (pun intended) me bonkers! You're left wondering whether you should continue straight because you don't know if you'll encounter a detour.
There's always room for improvement, and not trying to diminish the experience of current residents, but I will say this: although I live outside of PA now, I have in all honesty noticed a definite improvement in road quality and upgrades in the state over the years during my once-every-few-months visits, especially on local roads.
Highways tend to be the most substandard in PA (the Schuylkill Expressway is legendarily outdated, as we all know, but the topography and densely populated surroundings makes any meaningful expansion impossible). What I most agree with is roadway lighting: a lot of townships are indeed stingy with lighting installation, which is desperately needed in many spots.
I think it's also very important to balance roadway upgrades with character too, however. A big part of the charm of PA is its two-lane country roads, even in heavily-populated areas. It can be frustrating in peak traffic times, I understand, but it gives areas much more a sense of place when it's not defined by multi-lane, highway-like roads everywhere you go. There's PLENTY of that in America.
It may also come as a surprise Pennsylvania has one of the highest per capita capital outlays among all states (6th) and is only 13th worst for surface roughness: https://www.moneygeek.com/living/sta...nfrastructure/, so it's certainly not for a lack of money being poured into the state's infrastructure.
I think it speaks volumes how much money indeed does go into roadway maintenance in a place like PA. Pennsylvania also has the 11th most lane miles (think of all of the little roads and bridges serving the thousands of little bergs across the state), so there's a little more context that folks should bear in mind as far as having more infrastructure to maintain than most other states: https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-c...ay-per-person/
PennDOT could not afford to send a man out to trim the brush along my rural state road this year. Or maybe they could afford it but couldn't find a worker willing to do it.
Right now we have an I-80 widening project in Monroe County, from 4 lanes to 6, including new exit ramps featuring roundabouts in East Stroudsburg.
Am I happy about infrastructure? No, but I'm not unhappy either.
Don't worry. We have plentiful revenue-generating PSP troopers hiding in every other median crossover road to ticket folks for speeding through rural areas along I-80 or I-99, though.
And unlike those in neighboring states, our state police pull over in-state residents. Travel through NY and NJ, two states whose residents constantly brag about how fast they drive, but for whatever reason, police in those states seem to always pull over out-of-staters.
PennDOT could not afford to send a man out to trim the brush along my rural state road this year. Or maybe they could afford it but couldn't find a worker willing to do it.
Right now we have an I-80 widening project in Monroe County, from 4 lanes to 6, including new exit ramps featuring roundabouts in East Stroudsburg.
Am I happy about infrastructure? No, but I'm not unhappy either.
How big is that widening project? From my research, it seems like a typical PA job - only a small section of the roadway will get widened. But it will take 4 years to do it. If I lived up that way, I’d be annoyed at the level of tourist traffic on not only inadequate I-80 but also inadequate state/US roads like 611 and 209. It’s terrible.
I think it speaks volumes how much money indeed does go into roadway maintenance in a place like PA. Pennsylvania also has the 11th most lane miles (think of all of the little roads and bridges serving the thousands of little bergs across the state), so there's a little more context that folks should bear in mind as far as having more infrastructure to maintain than most other states: https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-c...ay-per-person/
Duderino, you are a great poster and member of this site, so I mean no disrespect, but…
Pennsylvania ranks 5th in population and 9th in density, so what’s your point? More people should be able to fund more infrastructure. Again, why can’t we seem to figure out how to do what other states do?
Regarding the Schuykill, the only way to fix it in Montgomery County is to build an upper deck so that traffic going east has four lanes and traffic going west has four lanes. This is because much of the highway is sandwiched in between the river and hills (some of which have houses built on them). This would likely cost in the billions, so I don't see it happening anytime soon, if ever.
Here’s my suggestion - add a lane each way from KOP straight to the Manayunk exit (this avoids dealing with the Manayunk Bridge (that SEPTA spent Federal money on rehabbing though they never had plans to run trains on it)). The naysayers will say “but there’s rock on the side of the highway,” and my response is “Well, they blasted a channel right through that same rock to build the highway in the first place FFS, so surely we can chip or drill through a little bit more.” I think four lanes each way is too unrealistic, but we could for once try to act like we aren’t a rural area and expect more lanes. There is little reason for traffic jams every weekend day in a place like KOP except that we have a rural highway feeding the area.
We should be demanding infrastructure money from Biden and Congress. We helped put him there. But in typical Pennsyltucky fashion, we’ll be too passive, and other states will get the money.
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