PA State senator wants hate crimes law as top priority (American, should)

[susquehannock]

Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady

Definition (http://www.cahro.org/html/definition.html - broken link)



Once again hate crimes are often more violent in nature and often has the intention of dehumanizing the victim. For your questions.......look it up on the net.

Look at my screen name. Do you know what a 'susquehannock' is?

Do you see me complaining because I'm somewhat of a minority and I that I want to be 'special' with 'special laws' to protect me? Am I trying to become part of the 'victim' class?

The answer is a resounding "no!"

Do you know what I've been called throughout the years? Yeah, I've been threatened etc. but the laws are already in place should something happen.

Why are there double-standards? Why haven't the activists in California been arrested and charged for defacing churches and intimidating people trying to attend services? Why? Could it be double-standards?

What if it was the other way around? Heads would be rolling and the mainstream press would be screaming. It would be front page news.

Another thing that burns me up; the portrayal of straight males as doofuses on TV commercials and sit-coms. More double standards in action.

I'm getting so damn tired of P.C. and so is most people. All PC does is make matters worse. It's tearing apart the very fabric that made the country strong. The country is being fragmented into special protected classes.

We have enough laws. We don't need the thought police as been mentioned. I'm sure I wrote something that could get me in trouble, but you know what? I don't give a rat's keister.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by susquehannock

Look at my screen name. Do you know what a 'susquehannock' is?

Do you see me complaining because I'm somewhat of a minority and I that I want to be 'special' with 'special laws' to protect me? Am I trying to become part of the 'victim' class?

The answer is a resounding "no!"

Do you know what I've been called throughout the years? Yeah, I've been threatened etc. but the laws are already in place should something happen.

Why are there double-standards? Why haven't the activists in California been arrested and charged for defacing churches and intimidating people trying to attend services? Why? Could it be double-standards?

What if it was the other way around? Heads would be rolling and the mainstream press would be screaming. It would be front page news.

Another thing that burns me up; the portrayal of straight males as doofuses on TV commercials and sit-coms. More double standards in action.

I'm getting so damn tired of P.C. and so is most people. All PC does is make matters worse. It's tearing apart the very fabric that made the country strong. The country is being fragmented into special protected classes.

We have enough laws. We don't need the thought police as been mentioned. I'm sure I wrote something that could get me in trouble, but you know what? I don't give a rat's keister.

I have no issue with those being charged with intimidating people at church services. If they are breaking the law or are committing a hate crime I have no problem with them being charged. However, I'm going to state that those incidents were caused by a very small segment of the gay population and absolutely does not represent the whole (or even comes close). There are militant folks in every group. Also, Perhaps they are acting in this manner due to the decades of oppression, discrimination, and hate leveled upon them. Every minority has faced discrimination and hate of some sort which is sad. I'm going to guess that the gay population has faced way more violence and discrimination compared to other minorities in recent time. Can you be kicked out of a rented property because of your race? Can you be fired from a job because of your race? Can you not be able to adopt or have foster children because of your race? How would you like that if this applied to you? Don't I pay the same taxes as you do and should have these same rights/standards of living? I'm not minimizing the history and hardships that your race have faced but it's also a little different points in time/history to be comparing the two groups. There have been steps put in place to detour racially motivated crime/violence and thankfully the public perception has changed quite a bit over the past 20-30 years. If you are getting tired of PC practices get use to it. We are getting tired of being treated like second rate citizens and facing constant hostility in forms of discrimination, hatred, and violence.

[susquehannock]

Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady

I have no issue with those being charged with intimidating people at church services. If they are breaking the law or are committing a hate crime I have no problem with them being charged. However, I'm going to state that those incidents were caused by a very small segment of the gay population and absolutely does not represent the whole (or even comes close). There are militant folks in every group. Also, Perhaps they are acting in this manner due to the decades of oppression, discrimination, and hate leveled upon them. Every minority has faced discrimination and hate of some sort which is sad. I'm going to guess that the gay population has faced way more violence and discrimination compared to other minorities in recent time. Can you be kicked out of a rented property because of your race? Can you be fired from a job because of your race? Can you not be able to adopt or have foster children because of your race? How would you like that if this applied to you? Don't I pay the same taxes as you do and should have these same rights/standards of living? I'm not minimizing the history and hardships that your race have faced but it's also a little different points in time/history to be comparing the two groups. There have been steps put in place to detour racially motivated crime/violence and thankfully the public perception has changed quite a bit over the past 20-30 years. If you are getting tired of PC practices get use to it. We are getting tired of being treated like second rate citizens and facing constant hostility in forms of discrimination, hatred, and violence.

I have no issue with those being charged with intimidating people at church services. If they are breaking the law or are committing a hate crime I have no problem with them being charged. However, I'm going to state that those incidents were caused by a very small segment of the gay population and absolutely does not represent the whole (or even comes close)

But all crimes against gays represent the majority of the perpetrators....right?

Don't I pay the same taxes as you do and should have these same rights/standards of living?

Yes but why should my taxes go for the funding of a 'special and protected class?' when I wouldn't have the same protections if the nature of the crime was reversed. If a bunch of gays kick my but because I'm 'straight' would I have the hate crime protection? The answer is "No' and that is why most people despise hate crime laws.

If you are getting tired of PC practices get use to it.

I hate to tell you this but people are fed up to their necks and the PC movement will wither on the vine.

And yes.....I could get fired anytime. I've seen and heard of white folks fired just to be replaced with...(fill in the blank). I know of a local factory where the practice is rampant.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by susquehannock

I have no issue with those being charged with intimidating people at church services. If they are breaking the law or are committing a hate crime I have no problem with them being charged. However, I'm going to state that those incidents were caused by a very small segment of the gay population and absolutely does not represent the whole (or even comes close)

But all crimes against gays represent the majority of the perpetrators....right?

Don't I pay the same taxes as you do and should have these same rights/standards of living?

Yes but why should my taxes go for the funding of a 'special and protected class?' when I wouldn't have the same protections if the nature of the crime was reversed. If a bunch of gays kick my but because I'm 'straight' would I have the hate crime protection? The answer is "No' and that is why most people despise hate crime laws.

If you are getting tired of PC practices get use to it.

I hate to tell you this but people are fed up to their necks and the PC movement will wither on the vine.

And yes.....I could get fired anytime. I've seen and heard of white folks fired just to be replaced with...(fill in the blank). I know of a local factory where the practice is rampant.

You're reaching without any logical substance at this point. I'd love to see your proof of a white person being fired solely for the reason that they are white. Would also love to see many crime examples of a straight man being beat with the motive being "He was stright." And you know that not all crimes against gay people are hate crimes. This isn't really worth debating anymore if that's all your going to bring to the table.

[susquehannock]

Did you ever hear of H1-B visas? Guess who they replace?

Yes, there are documented cases of reverse beatings etc. but, you won't read or hear about them because the media covers them up.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by susquehannock

Did you ever hear of H1-B visas? Guess who they replace?

Yes, there are documented cases of reverse beatings etc. but, you won't read or hear about them because the media covers them up.

They are not replaced because they are "white". They are replaced because the employers can hire cheaper workers (the driving factor being money not "He's white let's fire him because of his skin color"). I'm sure many other ethnicities have been replaced as well as some corporations salivate at the chance to hire cheaper labor help.

I'm not even going to touch that last point........wow. I think this discussion has run it's course.

[HeadedWest]

[quote=R.J. MacReady;6830501]
Once again hate crimes are often more violent in nature and often has the intention of dehumanizing the victim. [\QUOTE]

Please define those terms legally, so that a hate crime can clearly be distinguished from a non hate crime.

For your questions.......look it up on the net.

You're the one who says it works. Seems to me that it is up to you to defend your assertion, if you wish the discussion to be productive.

[R.J. MacReady]

[quote=HeadedWest;6836799]Please define those terms legally, so that a hate crime can clearly be distinguished from a non hate crime. [\QUOTE]

I already did in that same exact message you just quoted:

Any act of intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force directed against any person, or gamely, or their property or advocate, motivated either in whole or in part by hostility to their real or perceived race, ethnic background, religious belief, sex, age, disability, or sexual orientation, with the intention of causing fear or intimidation, or to deter the free exercise or enjoyment of any rights or privileges

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

PYou're the one who says it works. Seems to me that it is up to you to defend your assertion, if you wish the discussion to be productive.

Actually the quoted part above would answer most of the questions you asked. Groups would not leave the list and sexual orientation and gender identity seem to be the last groups that are targeted and not included on every state list. Not every attack against somebody who is gay, black, religious, or disabled is a hate crime. It would depend on the circumstances of the crime, what caused it, and having ample evidence to prove it was motivated by hate crime criteria.

[HeadedWest]

Originally Posted by R.J. MacReady

Groups would not leave the list and sexual orientation and gender identity seem to be the last groups that are targeted and not included on every state list. Not every attack against somebody who is gay, black, religious, or disabled is a hate crime. It would depend on the circumstances of the crime, what caused it, and having ample evidence to prove it was motivated by hate crime criteria.

So the definition is entirely subjective. That's not good law.

[R.J. MacReady]

Originally Posted by HeadedWest

So the definition is entirely subjective. That's not good law.

You are free to feel how ever you wish about the law. Many feel it's a good thing. Won't please everybody.