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Perhaps it is a reflection of our society today, but, every response on this thread thus far has suggested ways to avoid paying tens of thousands in debts to which this couple obligated themselves with their credit card spending.
What ever happend to the 'old-fashioned notion' of NOT taking-on more debt (for 'stuff') than one can possibly hope to pay back .... and/or taking responsibility for paying debts that one rightfully owes??
This is a major problem with today's housing market and overall economy.
Suppose someone suggested to folks who 'want' more than can afford... that they simply 'take' whatever they want ... without paying for it. Most people would be appalled and declare, "that's stealing!" --- But, what is the real difference between that ... and simply 'charging' whatever one wants on credit --- with no back-up resources or notion of how they will actually pay for it??
Yes creditors can and do contact family members, they don't say what they are calling for but they do it. A retired older person should be able to find senior legal aid, probably through their legal aid office that can file bankruptcy for them, I think it is for the filing fee only (about $300). For peace of mind I would suggest to them to seek legal help, the phone calls will stop and they will not have to worry about judgments, liens, etc.
Which balance is the highest on the card out of all? They might get sued if the balance is very high or they might not. What is the SOL on this? The creditors have no access to their account unless there is a judgement and wage garnishment depending on state laws.
Pension/SS could be protected, check with state laws. All this only applies if they get a judgement after a lawsuit.
Never ignore the court order. If you do, then they will get a easy judgement. The court date could be avoided if there is settlement.
They can call the relatives but I don't think they can according to law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workaholic?
I have some RETIRED relatives who have tens of thousands in credit card debt and now have reached the point that they just can't pay anymore. The minimum payment is too much and if they pay just a partial payment they will get huge penalties and interest
rate increases. So they just decided to stop paying entirely.
Basically they are living on a small pension and social security. They own their home but the house is in real rough shape and has little value. They have under $1000 in the bank and a old car.
Since they stopped paying of course the phone started ringing off the hook so they canceled their phone service and now use a Cell Phone only and the creditors don't have that number. They get lots of letters in the mail but they are thrown away unopened. They keep their bank account balance under $200 in case the creditors would try to take their money. This has been going on for about six months now.
QUESTIONS:
What is going to happen? Can the creditors go after their social security/ Their pension?
Will they try to take their house?
What happens if they ignore court orders to show up in court to discuss the debt?
Will the creditors attempt to call and harass the neighbors and relatives?
What can they really do to collect from a couple of retired 70 year olds?
Perhaps it is a reflection of our society today, but, every response on this thread thus far has suggested ways to avoid paying tens of thousands in debts to which this couple obligated themselves with their credit card spending.
What ever happend to the 'old-fashioned notion' of NOT taking-on more debt (for 'stuff') than one can possibly hope to pay back .... and/or taking responsibility for paying debts that one rightfully owes??
This is a major problem with today's housing market and overall economy.
Suppose someone suggested to folks who 'want' more than can afford... that they simply 'take' whatever they want ... without paying for it. Most people would be appalled and declare, "that's stealing!" --- But, what is the real difference between that ... and simply 'charging' whatever one wants on credit --- with no back-up resources or notion of how they will actually pay for it??
To be fair, the last 5 years have affected a lot of people in many ways (both directly and indirectly) so many financial situations have changed drastically. What if someone had no debt, then lost a job and tried through credit cards/savings to keep their home only to find it still worth less than they owed? Pretty simple problem that has affected thousands of people.
The banks take a risk loaning money, the reward is the interest they collect. If they make a bad loan, it is all part of their business model.
Goes back to an old saying:
If you loan someone a small amount it is their problem, loan them a large amount it is your problem!
Perhaps it is a reflection of our society today, but, every response on this thread thus far has suggested ways to avoid paying tens of thousands in debts to which this couple obligated themselves with their credit card spending.
What ever happend to the 'old-fashioned notion' of NOT taking-on more debt (for 'stuff') than one can possibly hope to pay back .... and/or taking responsibility for paying debts that one rightfully owes??
This is a major problem with today's housing market and overall economy.
Suppose someone suggested to folks who 'want' more than can afford... that they simply 'take' whatever they want ... without paying for it. Most people would be appalled and declare, "that's stealing!" --- But, what is the real difference between that ... and simply 'charging' whatever one wants on credit --- with no back-up resources or notion of how they will actually pay for it??
Whatever happened? T.A.R.P.
Gimmie a break. When Congress voted against the will of the people to bail banks out, so friends and cronies of Congresscritters could keep millions and billions, the rule of law shifted. The attitudes of most of us have become jaded, we now understand the laws as more to keep those WITH power IN power than real justice and fairness, and frankly Scarlett, we don't .....
I just went to the store to buy an ounce of ginger root, about three ounces of garlic, a small box of cornstarch and a quart bottle of carbonated water and paid over $12. Ten years ago, I might have paid $3. Did I cause prices to skyrocket? Did I overextend myself? Did I decide to tax food? Did I decide that MY lifestyle was too important or MY stockholders wanted a greater profit? I think not.
The idea of social responsibility has been ABANDONED at the highest levels, and such musings about the "responsibilities" of those being crushed by such actions are passe. Get with the program. Welcome to the 21st century.
The idea of social responsibility has been ABANDONED at the highest levels, and such musings about the "responsibilities" of those being crushed by such actions are passe. Get with the program. Welcome to the 21st century.
Agree. The idea that the little guy should be subject to an ethical standard that neither our leaders in business nor government will follow is ridiculous.
If it makes sense to default, then default. Use the rules that exist in our society in the way that benefits you most. That is what our government and business leaders do. And they dont feel bad about it. Neither should you.
Do not feel any moral obligation to repay debt if you can't. They made a business decision to loan you money and in return you pay interest. If the people who loan you money can't afford to repay their debts, they will just default for the same reason.
In some instances the loan has already been paid, it is the interest that keeps the payment going. Some of the credit card companies were charging out of the world interest rates, lets talk 29%.
Perhaps it is a reflection of our society today, but, every response on this thread thus far has suggested ways to avoid paying tens of thousands in debts to which this couple obligated themselves with their credit card spending.
i would expect people to do whatever they can within the law to protect themselves. the problem isnt really what these people do to avoid the debt. the problem is that the law doesnt have sufficient protections for creditors. then the problem falls from the creditors to the working productive people who take on the burden of the bailout or higher rates to cover other people who dont pay. it seems its because politically its easier to look like the good guy who is helping people down on their luck rather than being painted as someone who kicks out grandmas because they cant pay their bills. of course, the politician doesnt have to pay for the old lady's house, taxpayers do.
i would expect people to do whatever they can within the law to protect themselves. the problem isnt really what these people do to avoid the debt. the problem is that the law doesnt have sufficient protections for creditors. then the problem falls from the creditors to the working productive people who take on the burden of the bailout or higher rates to cover other people who dont pay. it seems its because politically its easier to look like the good guy who is helping people down on their luck rather than being painted as someone who kicks out grandmas because they cant pay their bills. of course, the politician doesnt have to pay for the old lady's house, taxpayers do.
While debt can come from many unexpected causes (eg; unforseen medical expenses, loss of a job, other emergencies) ... it most often comes from spending beyond one's means (just like the government). How many times have we (or our kids) seen someone who doesn't earn/have any more money than we do and wondered, "How in the world can they afford that ... bigger house, newer car, vacation, expensive college, etc)?" Invariably, the answer is, 'They can't! -- They are simply running-up loans and credit card debts for things that they can't afford ... and are unlikely to ever be able to pay for!'
So, who is responsible? Are the 'bad old banks and credit card companies' who extend credit to people who make poor decisions, responsible? ---(If so, then aren't the stock market, casinos, new car dealers, retail stores, housing contractors ... etc. --- equally culpable?). I agree that banks and credit card co's. take a calculated risk, for which they are well paid; but, the rationalization that this absolves the individual of personal responsibility is exactly that ("rational-lies").
If Europe or the 'credit-lives' of individual Americans is any indicator, the U.S. and many of its citizens may be rapidly approaching a debt ceiling --- from which no non-catastrophic solution exists! Yet, how often do our politicians actually do something to cut spending or costs? ... much less, where is the public mandate to 'cut spending --- at all costs' (versus, 'cut away, as long as it doesn't affect me!). --- Where is the great movement across the land to pay-off debts, reduce consumption and live within our means?
I believe that most of our personal financial 'wounds' ---and those being sustained by our country, are self-inflicted. These 'wounds' may be fatal -- and they will certainly not be healed until individuals start taking responsibility for their own lives and actions. (Look around! --- Not everyone (even the working poor) is facing a personal debt crisis. Likewise, ask anyone facing bankruptcy --- if the fact that many others are in the same boat... is any consolation. The government cannot and will not save us! --- We must each protect ourselves (often, unfortunately, against our own government/politicians). We do that by assuming personal responsibility for our own lives and finances.
I have some RETIRED relatives who have tens of thousands in credit card debt and now have reached the point that they just can't pay anymore. The minimum payment is too much and if they pay just a partial payment they will get huge penalties and interest rate increases. So they just decided to stop paying entirely.
Basically they are living on a small pension and social security. They own their home but the house is in real rough shape and has little value. They have under $1000 in the bank and a old car.
Since they stopped paying of course the phone started ringing off the hook so they canceled their phone service and now use a Cell Phone only and the creditors don't have that number. They get lots of letters in the mail but they are thrown away unopened. They keep their bank account balance under $200 in case the creditors would try to take their money. This has been going on for about six months now.
QUESTIONS:
What is going to happen? Can the creditors go after their social security/ Their pension?
Will they try to take their house?
What happens if they ignore court orders to show up in court to discuss the debt?
Will the creditors attempt to call and harass the neighbors and relatives?
What can they really do to collect from a couple of retired 70 year olds?
Nothing, seems to me like these folks have it figured out. They appear to have no money, so creditors won't come after them.
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