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I know exactly what social security is. It is insurance. What it is not, as your nonsensical argument suggests, is a 'pension', or sillier still, 'welfare'. You most definitely wear the tinfoil.
No, you don't. You know what you think social security is, perhaps. But what you think it is is pretty meaningless. It's not your opinion that carries any weight. It's welfare, which is why SSA calls it welfare. It's a pension, see Mathjack's post or refer back to the legislation directly which calls it a pension which I posted earlier. Basically what you (or I) think doesn't much matter. You can scream to the world that it isn't a pension and isn't welfare. That's meaningless. The Congress called it a pension in their legislation. Your opinion not withstanding, it is a pension. The Social Security Administration calls it welfare. Your opinion not withstanding, it is welfare. The Congress and the SSA just carry more weight than your opinions on the matter do. You can believe whatever you want. I'll go by what the Congress and the SSA say.
on the other hand fidelity has 12 million work place accounts.
for those over 55 who have been contributing from 1/2 to max the last decade the median account balance is around 300k.
once you weed out those who are doiing little on the saving front those who are are doing far better in the numbers dept once they are not diluted..
Fidelity is one of the biggest providers of 401k and most importantly 403b accounts. The overwhelming majority of 403b non profit plan owners are public employees with pensions. Add that fact and you have another picture/perspective.
Congress and SSA are referring to 'social welfare', which is a much broader concept than your attempt to buttonhole it as 'welfare'. That's patently obvious. But whatever, enjoy being on the dole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloric
No, you don't. You know what you think social security is, perhaps. But what you think it is is pretty meaningless. It's not your opinion that carries any weight. It's welfare, which is why SSA calls it welfare. It's a pension, see Mathjack's post or refer back to the legislation directly which calls it a pension which I posted earlier. Basically what you (or I) think doesn't much matter. You can scream to the world that it isn't a pension and isn't welfare. That's meaningless. The Congress called it a pension in their legislation. Your opinion not withstanding, it is a pension. The Social Security Administration calls it welfare. Your opinion not withstanding, it is welfare. The Congress and the SSA just carry more weight than your opinions on the matter do. You can believe whatever you want. I'll go by what the Congress and the SSA say.
Everyone I know is forced to be in a defined benefit plan in this country. It's a lousy one too. I wish I could opt out.
Defined contribution is way worse than defined benefits as a type of retirement benefits for the average person. The retirement savings crisis people are talking about these days in America are largely the result of employers getting rid of pension plans. Most people are terrible at managing their own retirement savings. Letting the government or private employers take care of retirement benefits was a brilliant idea that for some reason unbeknownst to me has fallen out of favor.
Defined contribution is way worse than defined benefits as a type of retirement benefits for the average person. The retirement savings crisis people are talking about these days in America are largely the result of employers getting rid of pension plans. Most people are terrible at managing their own retirement savings. Letting the government or private employers take care of retirement benefits was a brilliant idea that for some reason unbeknownst to me has fallen out of favor.
The question is who bears the price of lower than expected returns and any resulting fund shortfall? Should it be the beneficiary of the fund or taxpayers/ shareholders which are often other pension funds. Tough one to call.
I know exactly what social security is. It is insurance. What it is not, as your nonsensical argument suggests, is a 'pension', or sillier still, 'welfare'. You most definitely wear the tinfoil.
Insurance against what?
Insurance is paid out when a contingent event happens. Life insurance gets paid when the insured dies. Property insurance gets paid when the property is damaged. Health insurance gets paid when the insured seeks medical treatment. When does your "social security insurance" get paid? Perhaps when someone retires? Well, pension gets paid when someone retires too. So wouldn't that make pension some insurance of the same type?
Defined contribution is way worse than defined benefits as a type of retirement benefits for the average person. The retirement savings crisis people are talking about these days in America are largely the result of employers getting rid of pension plans. Most people are terrible at managing their own retirement savings. Letting the government or private employers take care of retirement benefits was a brilliant idea that for some reason unbeknownst to me has fallen out of favor.
True.
I f-ed it up this year. I over contributed to my SEP IRA, so now I need to withdraw it so I can switch over to a 401k for next year. Bit of a hassle. It'd be nice to have an employer handle it. Not a huge deal, it's just a bit of paperwork that I'd rather not do. Government handling it I wouldn't mind (eg, MyIRA-type program). I just don't like social security because they invest it too conservatively. I do my own investing mostly in ETFs. It's not that much work and has higher historical returns than social security.
The question is who bears the price of lower than expected returns and any resulting fund shortfall? Should it be the beneficiary of the fund or taxpayers/ shareholders which are often other pension funds. Tough one to call.
Reality shows that individuals are worse than corporations and governments at managing investment portfolios. So in terms of social efficiency, corporates and governments should bear the risk.
Insurance is paid out when a contingent event happens. Life insurance gets paid when the insured dies. Property insurance gets paid when the property is damaged. Health insurance gets paid when the insured seeks medical treatment. When does your "social security insurance" get paid?
Insurance against destitution in one's old age. It works like an annuity. As I posted previously social security's official designation is Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance.
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