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My only work experience is in the architecture profession, so that's the limit of my view, but I'd say the opportunities for a salaried position not at a high level of leadership look very limited for people over 50. If you can bring in business, there is opportunity at any age. But for just a salaried 50-something architect, trying to get hired looks hard. I'd advise an architect to save like they'll retire early, then consider self-employment if they lose their job.
Yeah- one of my friends is in his late 60s and he's a sports architect. Lost a lot of his savings while unemployed during the financial crisis and is unemployed again and complaining about having to ante up for his son's fraternity dues. No idea why he's still paying them when money is so tight. I'm guessing that, as Mathjak said, he's not someone who brings in business.
In my own case, my employer was acquired when I was 53. Six years later when I could see my own job dwindling away I found that all the cool positions within the company were in London, Zurich and Westchester County, NY- not in the hinterlands where I lived. I applied for some of the open positions, but let's be practical: why invest all the expense of relocating someone with such a short career horizon? I ended up going with another local company but less than 2 years later I left.
Most 50 year olds are not “washed up”’. That’s kinda silly. But I agree it is probably more difficult to find a position at 50, than say, 40. But then...it depends on the job you are looking for as well. Lots of factors there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107
If you have a following in a Sales position you can work forever
The career-trajectory of many technical people goes something like this:
23-28: get PhD in physics, engineering, computer-science.
28-35: do "bench level" research. Set up equipment, write code, publish papers.
35-45: gradually move into senior/administrative positions. Do less hands-on. Lose currency.
45-50: reach junior executive level. Travel, give speeches, serve on committees, cut ribbons.
50+: ???
If this 50+ year old can coast as an executive, that's fantastic. And if not? This is person gets downsized, then what? Can he get a job as a bench-level researcher? As a lecturer somewhere? As a staff-scientist? He's not done "science" for a decade - apart from chairing a committee in IEE or SNAME or whatever. What would this guy do? Work construction? Wal-Mart greeter?
The career-trajectory of many technical people goes something like this:
23-28: get PhD in physics, engineering, computer-science.
28-35: do "bench level" research. Set up equipment, write code, publish papers.
35-45: gradually move into senior/administrative positions. Do less hands-on. Lose currency.
45-50: reach junior executive level. Travel, give speeches, serve on committees, cut ribbons.
50+: ???
If this 50+ year old can coast as an executive, that's fantastic. And if not? This is person gets downsized, then what? Can he get a job as a bench-level researcher? As a lecturer somewhere? As a staff-scientist? He's not done "science" for a decade - apart from chairing a committee in IEE or SNAME or whatever. What would this guy do? Work construction? Wal-Mart greeter?
it all depends what you do and where .i can only speak for my industry and age is never a factor .. in fact it is just the opposite , out of almost 400 employees in 6 states there are sooooo many over the age of 50 and 60 , going as high as age 85 .
most of us in technical sales have built up our customer bases over decades and many of those customers follow us where ever we go ... that is worth big bucks to a competitor
The career-trajectory of many technical people goes something like this:
23-28: get PhD in physics, engineering, computer-science.
28-35: do "bench level" research. Set up equipment, write code, publish papers.
35-45: gradually move into senior/administrative positions. Do less hands-on. Lose currency.
45-50: reach junior executive level. Travel, give speeches, serve on committees, cut ribbons.
50+: ???
If this 50+ year old can coast as an executive, that's fantastic. And if not? This is person gets downsized, then what? Can he get a job as a bench-level researcher? As a lecturer somewhere? As a staff-scientist? He's not done "science" for a decade - apart from chairing a committee in IEE or SNAME or whatever. What would this guy do? Work construction? Wal-Mart greeter?
The bolded has been me thus far. But I've actually continued to do more research as I've taken on unofficial project leadership roles. Perhaps I'm lucky that I actually enjoy learning about the topic I study, so it makes it easy, but I don't ever foresee me being out of touch with "science", especially with all of the near free resources to learn online nowadays.
Plus, I know what I make right now as a "bench level researcher" so if the pay increases at each of those job levels as a junior executive level I'd be able to retire in 2-3 years.
The career-trajectory of many technical people goes something like this:
23-28: get PhD in physics, engineering, computer-science.
28-35: do "bench level" research. Set up equipment, write code, publish papers.
35-45: gradually move into senior/administrative positions. Do less hands-on. Lose currency.
45-50: reach junior executive level. Travel, give speeches, serve on committees, cut ribbons.
50+: ???
If this 50+ year old can coast as an executive, that's fantastic. And if not? This is person gets downsized, then what? Can he get a job as a bench-level researcher? As a lecturer somewhere? As a staff-scientist? He's not done "science" for a decade - apart from chairing a committee in IEE or SNAME or whatever. What would this guy do? Work construction? Wal-Mart greeter?
Perhaps that is the career – trajectory of many, but it sure isn’t of any of the people in my field Where I work.Personally, we don’t have any PhD’s working where I do, perhaps they are in the upper level management staff, but not in the hands-on trenches where I work. PhD really don’t add anything at this level. We don’t need them And we sure would not pay extra for those certifications.We are IT developers, systems analysts, system admins, business analysts, technical field support staff, help desk staff, and age is definitely not a factor. And to be perfectly honest, there are very few of us that have any desire to move into the managerial positions… Since those positions aren’t hands-on. We would not be using our skills so why go there? Unless all you are after is money and climbing a ladder of course. Sure there are those narrow career paths that some take…and maybe those are the ones that wind up in the most trouble.
I wouldn't say "nobody" will hire a 50 yr old. If they have good skills in an area in which those skills are needed and they are normal, personable, they will find employment. Could be contract work, not standard employee status. But not having a "plan B" and some serious savings to tap would be foolhardy because there are no guarantees that a job will come along when the job seeker wants.
Yes, I do agree 'nobody' is too absolute, but I think the general point is well made.
Just so I understand, the whole premise Is based on saving enough money in the market so you can collect 4% each year to live on and at that point you are fi? We’re not talking about any other method like real,estate investing, right?
We can live on our SSDI and DH's pension. They cover all our basic expenses. We bought a rental that is available as of yesterday. We'll get $900 per month from that. We withdraw from DH's IRA for extras such as a new shed, siding on the house, a new pool, etc. We have almost everything done (we do one major project per year) so will not NEED withdrawals, but will continue to take them to reduce RMDs.
I was 50 and DH was 57 when we retired. Our combined IRAs and Roths are over seven figures. We did that by saving a minimum of 15-20% of our incomes in tax advantaged accounts. Mine was in a 401(k) and DH's was in a pension annuity. We also retired with a taxable account of six figures. We both had average incomes for the NYC area we lived in. Financial independence counts every type of income, including rental income, for us.
it all depends what you do and where .i can only speak for my industry and age is never a factor .. in fact it is just the opposite , out of almost 400 employees in 6 states there are sooooo many over the age of 50 and 60 , going as high as age 85 .
most of us in technical sales have built up our customer bases over decades and many of those customers follow us where ever we go ... that is worth big bucks to a competitor
Some jobs have a steep learning curve initially, and then plateau. Later, good people-skills, self-discipline, organization and alacrity, become more important than deepening one's technical knowledge. These are the fields where older people can and do excel. As a buyer of lab equipment, I'd much rather deal with a 60-year-old technical sales representative, than a 30-year-old one. Specifically to your point, I've bought controllers for industrial motors before... AC rotary motors and DC linear motors... and I'd much rather deal with a seasoned rep like you, and a brand new fellow or gal, who's all-enthusiasm but little experience.
Other jobs have an intensity of technical immersion that's not only hard to sustain, but inimical to the "management track" of promotion. The people who manage Fermilab, CERN, Jet Propulsion Lab, Sandia and so forth, probably haven't written code or solved a differential equation in 20 years. Not only have they not kept up with the latest programming-languages, which is to say "skills", but their scientific knowledge has atrophied. By this I draw distinction between factual familiarity with the latest tools of the trade, and foundational knowledge. Upper management is generally inept in both.
So... if/when such upper-manager gets canned, in particular if there's a career-ending scandal, it becomes very hard to compete with fellow job-seekers. It is this sort of fall-from-grace, for which it's wise to prepare.
If you have a following in a Sales position you can work forever
Yup, because you bring in the money. A lot of people need to think bigger picture frankly. Why are you 50+ and still working for someone else?! I mean there’s a time and a place to work for wages, that’s when you’re young and learning the ropes. At some point I just wonder why wouldn’t you start your own company and bet on yourself? If you think that’s a poor bet, why would it be a surprise an employer thinks that too?!
i had my own hvac company decades ago ... no thanks , i prefer to not deal with the headaches and the emergencies all the time ... that cured me .. i rather work for a company and then just do my own thing on a part time deal ..
even today , being retired i have a few gigs going on i get paid for but it is all on my own terms ...
i teach motor controls and variable frequency drives one day a week for a company , my wife and i have a little photography business selling prints and files and of course i struck up my drumming career again ....
so all in all we have enough ways to make extra money and none of it is anything i wouldn't do for free if i had to since i enjoy all of it .
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